An Atheist Agrees with Discovery on Public Education

(Guy Coe) #21

So, you’re agreeing with me, is what you’re thinking? Because if so, we need to talk.
Atheism enters the schools because atheists are among the students, as are theists of various kinds. It is simply a fact in a democratic society.
Unfortunately, treating these subjects as totally out of bounds for classroom discussions doesn’t prepare them for the real world, nor inform them honestly of its history. It would seem there are no easy answers, and perhaps a less ideologically adverse approach is needed. Beyond that, we all need to work on the too-facile stereotyping of one another, don’t you think?
Getting along means putting down the animus, listening better, agreeing to disagree, truly caring about each other.

(Dr. Patrick Trischitta) #22

I said I agree with DI on this one article. I am just one of 33,000 members of FFRF and I don’t speak for the Foundation. We have eleven Constitutions attorneys, two great co-Presidents, a large editorial staff who speak officially for the Foundation. I doubt that FFRF will officially agree with anything that DI announces except its complete renunciation of ID as science and announcement of ID as a form of religious creationism .

(S. Joshua Swamidass) #23

You are our archetype of FFRF, hehe. Any how, you get my point. It is remains totally mind bending. You have real common ground with DI. I have new hope for our moment.

(Dr. Patrick Trischitta) #24

I am what is called a gung-ho member. I hope to be an afterlife member (which sets up an endowment for after one dies). I think DI members will probably come around to be TE’s or EC’s or some kind of Christian semi-science accepters. I was really surprised that Ann identifies as a Christian now as back at Dover Trial they all wanted to keep their faith private (which is their constitutional right to do.)

(S. Joshua Swamidass) #25

@Agauger’s work is clearly on that path to…

I don’t mean that about ID in general, but specifically her model of Adam. She is making a case against evidence or a bottleneck, and she wants the de novo creation of Adam, it seems. However, I don’t think she is positing a de novo Adam in science. That is merely a claim outside of science. She might be moving suspiciously close to following the rules.

I know that FFRF would probably prefer for DI to be wiped from the face of the earth. Though, if they are going to be here for the long run, wouldn’t be great if most their work started taking on that character? We might not have to maintain the same congenital opposition to them. Crazy I know. It is certainly not the world we live in now.

(Dr. Patrick Trischitta) #26

DI’s work in other areas like economics and technology is quite good and secular humanistic. If they dropped the ID part that might be considered a real valuable thinktank of ideas for a better world.

(Dr. Patrick Trischitta) #27

Yes, the kids can say to each other: How was not going to church on Sunday? What you do? Had fun.

(Dr. Patrick Trischitta) #28

Most atheists are what is called in-the-closet atheists, or nones, or just non-believers, non-affiliates of their parent’s religion, if their parent’s had religion. I am now seeing more children of nones and they are certainly nones. They don’t talk about beliefs much. I can tell really fast their beliefs, as they will change the subject quickly when anything remotely close to religion comes up. They really prefer being “nones” especially non-affiliates. They don’t want to think about this life nor whether there is a next life. They are very pre-occupied with the here and now, instant gratification lifestyle. What is your experience with people younger than 30?

(Guy Coe) #29

My own son is “okay with the God and Jesus thing,” but isn’t sure it really makes a difference. At age 22, life still has a lot of lessons in store. He is making $70k a year on the road as a big rig driver. He is not a “none,” per se, but functionally a bit agnostic, while still listening to his mom and dad explain the difference it makes. He credits the faith for much that is positive in history, and is intrigued by the data showing how “survival of the fittest” doesn’t exactly explain “arrival of the fittest.” You’d like him. He’s a good debater, and pretty astute at counterargumentation. Doesn’t take what his dad says as “gospel;” I raised him to be skeptical, but not dismissive. His best friends are active believers, and they enjoy talking about all kinds of things.

(S. Joshua Swamidass) #30

Tell us more. What do you like about what they do.

(Guy Coe) #31

Why should atheist kids be any more “in the closet” than Christian, Jewish, Muslim or whatever kids? I was always wary about being too obnoxious, growing up, and instead tried to specialize in the kinds of questions that got people thinking, like Jesus did. He was / is a Master question-asker. These days, I’m not sure there’s any inherent assumption of a “majority culture,” and teachers, for the most part, seem to be able keep their specific faith preferences more a matter of demonstration, rather than of advocacy. It is, frankly, a marvel of a democratic society, and we do well to learn deeply of each others’ cultures, and to affirm what we may.

(Dr. Patrick Trischitta) #32

Because most atheist kids are Christians, Jews, and Muslims. They have tuned out their parents religion and are essentially “nothing in particular”. They celebrate the holiday’s and don’t want to “come out” to their families as it would be too disruptive. They are CINOs (Christians in name only), JINOs, and MINOs. I think this has been true for generations in all religions. It is only now that it is okay in western society at least to be a None. Being a None is really easy today and doesn’t get you into many problems like coming out an atheist does. There will come a time (soon I hope) where the default position on what a person is will be “nothing in particular” or “unaffiliated” . I think that will be good for society as society is too divisive right now along religious lines drawn on every issue.

(Dr. Patrick Trischitta) #33

Another difference between FFRF and DI, is that we give scholarships to real colleges and universities, not a “schloarship” to come to DI headquarters and be indoctrinated with ID ideology.

(Guy Coe) #34

No; all they had to do was write articulately about your favorite ideology.
From the essay submission guidelines: “College students of color were asked to write a personal, persuasive essay about the ‘Challenges of being a student of color who rejects religion.’”
We’ll pay you to agree with us articulately!!
Pretty different from DI’s seminars, which explore their topics, while warning students to be extremely cautious about how they articulate their views. See how the deck is stacked, Mr. Virtue?

(Dr. Patrick Trischitta) #35

Not really stacked. We ask students to articulate about their challenges about their choices to reject religion. We don’t tell them what to believe. They can use the money to further their education in any subject.

DI, on the other hand, is trying to convince students that their beliefs should be ID based on the so-called evidence of their ID ideology. Pretty big difference.

(Guy Coe) #36

You should attend one sometime. I think you’d be surprised at the open and congenial atmosphere.

(Dr. Patrick Trischitta) #37

Sure, I’ll be there with my video camera. :sunglasses:

(Guy Coe) #38

Cool. I’ll be the one in the full head and face mask, mounted with my asthmatic breathing assistance apparatus, and wearing a jet black body cloak . I always bring my special laser pointer.
I’ll look for your sunglasses… : )
Won’t we have fun! Bring along the guy with the spaghetti collander hat, while you’re at it!