# An Invitation to Dr. Fazale Rana

**URL:** https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/an-invitation-to-dr-fazale-rana/332
**Category:** Peaceful Science
**Created:** [June 5, 2018, 7:59pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/an-invitation-to-dr-fazale-rana/332 "2018-06-05T19:59:30Z")
**Posts on this page:** 1
**Showing post:** 8

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### Author: ![swamidass](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/swamidass/32/3_2.png) [@swamidass](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/swamidass)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2018, 11:53pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/an-invitation-to-dr-fazale-rana/332/8 "2018-06-17T23:53:36Z")

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> [@Should RTB/OEC's Tweak Model in Light of New Data and if so How?](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/should-rtb-oecs-tweak-model-in-light-of-new-data-and-if-so-how/413/1):
>
> One of the things that has been clear to many of us around here is that [the current RTB model for humanity has been falsified](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/rtbs-model-and-smalley/283) by [the work](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/heliocentric-certainty-against-a-bottleneck-of-two/61/16) of our host.

@AJRoberts clarifications means this assessment should be changed.

> [@Engaging the Zoo of RTB Models](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/engaging-the-zoo-of-rtb-models/378/1):
>
> ## RTB Model #2
> 
> Then there was a change, that @otto pointed too, where Rana and Ross came appreciate and accept the evidence for Neanderthal-Sapien interbreeding. This means that RTB #1 is not really their current model, and we need to careful about not misrepresenting them. They changed the model in **Edition 2** of their book, to include Neanderthal-Humans interbreeding as bestiality.
> 
> > 1. Humans = Homo sapiens.
> > 2. Neanderthals are more close mentally to Apes, and are beasts without intelligence.
> > 3. Homo sapiens must arise _ **less than** _ 100 kya, from a single couple
> > 4. Homo sapiens interbreed with Neanderthals, and this is bestiality.
> > 5. A lost record of cities and agricultures
> 
> **It is possible that this could be consistent with the evidence** , but we need do some work to test it, by computing the TMR4A time within the Sapien specific lineage.

I do have the data to do this, but want to work with @AJRoberts and Rana in private first, to get us all on the same page about how these analyses work. It is outside their primary training, so this will take a little time. Rana and I are planning to talk end of summer.

It is **_possible_** that their model might be sustainable, because interbreeding with Neanderthals might add diversity to the human lineage. Remember…

> [@Heliocentric Certainty Against a Bottleneck of Two?](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/heliocentric-certainty-against-a-bottleneck-of-two/61/4):
>
> All the population size estimates (which are geometric averages over a time window) all include **Homo sapiens + others** , as far as I know. As far as I know, no one has found a way to figure out what the ratio is between the two population is; nor has anyone asked the question in a research study.

Turns out that I have found a study that does this. Obviously, they did not compute TMR4A in the _Homo sapiens_ specific lineage. That would give us the ability to determine if the current RTB model (which includes interbreeding with Neanderthals will be.

From my conversation this last week with @AJRoberts and Rana, they are very interested in getting this straight. It is just a matter of making the time. I expect it will happen. RTB supports might be hopeful to see some validation, or a definitive push away from RTB #2 to some undetermined RTB #3.

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