# Arguing from the English Translation?

**URL:** https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/arguing-from-the-english-translation/12098
**Category:** Conversation
**Tags:** Theology
**Created:** [October 11, 2020, 1:46pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/arguing-from-the-english-translation/12098 "2020-10-11T13:46:47Z")
**Posts on this page:** 1
**Showing post:** 22

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### Author: ![Faizal\_Ali](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/faizal_ali/32/12416_2.png) [@Faizal\_Ali](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/Faizal_Ali)
#### Post date: [October 6, 2020, 3:49pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/arguing-from-the-english-translation/12098/22 "2020-10-06T15:49:24Z")

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> [@dga471](#):
>
> That’s not how it works. There’s a difference between dynamic and formal equivalence translation philosophies, and that limits how much the translator is allowed to inject his preferred interpretation in to the translated text. Given that you don’t seem to be aware of the issues involved in Bible translation, your personal disagreement about how translators operate is not convincing.

I see. Well, we keep waiting for you to avail us of your expertise in this area and provide a translation that is closer to what you insist is the correct one. But nothing seems to be forthcoming.

Anyone can look for themselves on the Bible Gateway website, which provides about 60 different translations:

> **[Bible Gateway passage: Genesis 3 - King James Version](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis%2B3&version=KJV)**
>
> Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the...

The only one I could find that seemed to favour your interpretation was the Amplified Version:

> 22 And the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us (Father, Son, Holy Spirit), knowing [how to distinguish between] good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take from the tree of life as well, and eat [its fruit], and live [in this fallen, sinful condition] forever”

So the way things seem to work here is that whatever “condition” one is in when one eats from the Tree of Life is how one will remain. Adam and Even could then have been eating from it all along in their sinless state, but now God has to stop them from eating the fruit so they don’t stay “frozen” in a sinful state. OK, except, that’s what ends up happening, anyway, until Jesus comes along to provide redemption. Does this mean if they had eaten from the Tree of Life after eating from the Tree of Knowledge, Jesus sacrifice would not have worked? So confusing.

In any event, though I am no Hebrew scholar, I am a bit skeptical that the original text made reference to “Father, Son, Holy Spirit”. Could this particular translation be just a bit tainted by Christian theological presuppositions?

On the other end of the spectrum is this translation called “The Message”, which leave little from for doubt, though I make no claims that this is a definitive translation:

> 22 God said, “The Man has become like one of us, capable of knowing everything, ranging from good to evil. What if he now should reach out and take fruit from the Tree-of-Life and eat, and live forever? Never—this cannot happen!”

> [@Why were Adam and Eve cast out of Eden?](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/why-were-adam-and-eve-cast-out-of-eden/12029/71):
>
> Sorry @Rumraket, but this reply just evinces a misunderstanding of how Christians understand the perspicuity and inspiration of Scripture.

How Christians understand Scripture is irrelevant to this discussion. I am interested in how someone would read this text with no religious preconceptions whatsoever.

> [@Why were Adam and Eve cast out of Eden?](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/why-were-adam-and-eve-cast-out-of-eden/12029/72):
>
> @Faizal_Ali, do you think non-Christian readers (Jewish and Muslim) have interpreted Genesis 2:17 as a lie?

No, but they are hardly neutral, either. They tend to believe God would never lie.

> [@Why were Adam and Eve cast out of Eden?](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/why-were-adam-and-eve-cast-out-of-eden/12029/72):
>
> Are there any other possibilities in your mind (assuming God is really out there) to interpret that passage besides a lie? Could it be that God changed his mind between 2:17 and 3:23? Maybe God had mercy on them and instead of an immediate “capitol punishment” he instead exiled them. Is that a valid reading?

Such interpretations would depart wildly from the text.

> [@Why were Adam and Eve cast out of Eden?](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/why-were-adam-and-eve-cast-out-of-eden/12029/72):
>
> That doesn’t make a lot of sense to me because the distinction between God and humans is pretty stark. When was the last time any of us created an entire universe _ex nihilo_ ? Sure, maybe he didn’t want them to become immortal (that’s something @swamidass talks about in [GAE](http://peacefulscience.org/genealogical-adam-eve)), but that’s quite a bit different than what you describe. Are you just trying to make God sound like an overly sensitive and insecure jerk?

Not me, but whoever wrote this story. There are lots of stories in which gods come across like jerks. Actually, this would hardly be the most jerkish thing the Old Testament god is described as doing.

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