# Arthur Hunt and Stephen Meyer here

**URL:** <https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/arthur-hunt-and-stephen-meyer-here/1228>\
**Category:** Side Conversation\
**Created:** [August 19, 2018, 2:25am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/arthur-hunt-and-stephen-meyer-here/1228 "2018-08-19T02:25:09Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 1\
**Showing post:** 76

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**Author:** ![swamidass](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/swamidass/32/3_2.png) [@swamidass](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/swamidass)\
**Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 6:51pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/arthur-hunt-and-stephen-meyer-here/1228/76 "2018-08-19T18:51:14Z")

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> [@Art](#):
>
> I will be the first to admit that I don’t know the score-keeping rules for things like this. But, focusing just on my interactions, Meyer gave away the store. Digital information? Not important or not relevant. Cells as machines? No, Meyer grants that this is not the case.

Important, but highly technical points. Fundamentally important for the logic of Meyer’s case, but this exchange was not about logic. It was a performance with the crowds, and you had a scripted role, that you played to the tee.

> [@Art](#):
>
> The fact that the crowd didn’t instantly renounce Christianity (or become Celtics fans) doesn’t really change the recorded fact that Meyer gave away the store. That’s gotta count for something, no?

It does count, but not rhetorically. What we need to do is get a transcript of the exchange so it can be quoted. However, the goal should have never been to convince them to renouncer Christianity. The goal should be to renounce bad arguments, false claims, and enter into the mystery of science.

You might actually have made progress towards this the next day…[The Real Story of the Hunt and Meyer Exchange](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/the-real-story-of-the-hunt-and-meyer-exchange/1230). If that public debate was the price of entry, you might have made a good trade.

* * *

@art I’m not precisely saying you lost. I’m rather saying we do not expect good scientists to win in contexts like this. Popularism is the enemy of good science, and public debates are pure populism.

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