Bible verse removed from California school following FFRF complaint - Freedom...

I guess @Jay313, @Greg and @DaleCutler would think that this is petty to get a bible verse out of a public school.

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There is no legal demand to touch anything religious in svhjools. its coming from ememies of christianity.
first schools being paid for by the state does not make then THE STATE. anymore then army chaplins or praying bin a national park.
then anyways the founders of america, the people/the men, never intended any interferece with the people using religious stuff in the nation. they only rightly wanted the government to be neutral/not take sides.
Yet where sides are irrelevant all religious things are okay. or to be decided by the people that is.
In fact the greatest interference comes from the moderrn state censorship of creationism etc.
remember the very very protestant/puritan people who made America and her government.
its only a post wwii corruption that twists things to fight religion etc.

Im honestly more concerned w the church abandoning Scripture for the religion of sciencism

And I’m honestly concerned with the church continuing to try to bring Scripture in secular schools including science classrooms.

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And i care for you as a fellow human being made in God’s image as we all were. I am concerned that you realize that the very God who made you and I loves us both. You and i agree about public schools. I dont want public school teachers teaching scripture and feeding their understanding of it to our kids. I think enough harm has been done on the back of cherry picking scripture and teaching it out of context to promote a political or selfish financially beneficial position etc. That picture of exploiting Gods name via cherry picking scripture for a selfish agenda may make things worse for them than a person who leaves God out of the picture all together at the final judgment. Dont get me wrong, both options not good, but i am pretty sure God frowns when we use His name in vain. In fact, it is the very religious who mis manage scripture to suit their own agenda that cause people to stiff arm God all together. Hey, i am taking the blame myself! I sure aint joe perfect. This is why he gospel of grace is so precious.

So i am sort of with ya on this one Patrick, but just from a different perspective.

I know of no such God that you speak of. Can you please keep your God out of my public policy and my morals, ethics, and values. Then you can enjoy your life and pursuit of happiness as you wish and I can enjoy mine. Really easy.

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You made a comment in an open forum and i answered honestly. By the way, if “public policy” consists of a vast number of the “public” who do believe in God, how is it that you define it as yours from a relativistic position and therefore should eliminate any reference to faith based morals? This seems rather counterintuitive in my mind. Can you think about this a minute and explain?

Well, my morals, ethics, and values are mine alone. I formulated them over 60 years of life experiences. Depending on the situation and circumstances, I using my own reasoning, my own biological instincts, and my family, cultural, and societal norms to make my way through living life. It is not hard at all. You don’t need a God, nor an ancient book that you call Scripture to live a good life full of meaning and purpose. You should try being an “atheist for a day”. You may find it perfectly normal and empowering. Perhaps a little lonely at first but eventually you will realize that living in the real world is pretty good.

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But you did not answer the question about how you call “public policy” “my public policy” when the public consists of people of faith. If you dont want to answer, just say so and i ll move on to eating my breakfast

Well, I said it is “my public policy” because I am a citizen of this great country as well as a citizen of my town, county and state. I believe in and trust in the laws and policies of the society that I live in are in the best interests of all the people. So “my public policy” is also “your public policy”. I am all for open debate and dialogue to improve our laws and our society. I am for change that improves people lives but couldn’t care less if it is line with what Your God wants or needs. So as long as you want to improve conditions for all humans, I am with you but if your position is to appease or please your God, I will oppose it or ignore it. Pretty simple and very American.

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So i saw an article yesterday about the arrest of a youtuber with childporn on his computer. Should we look out for him and improve his conditions you think?

It is not up to you or I what to do with him/her. The person was arrested and it is now up to the judicial system to decide fine, jail term, if found guilty of the charges. The person is entitled to due process and a good lawyer.

If you are referring to the guy who got 10 years for child porn, it seems like he got a fair trial and I hope that he could have a good life after serving his sentence. Perhaps he will get out early for good behavior in prison. It doesn’t seem that the sentence was overly harsh for what he did.

Why would the judicial system find him guilty? He is a person who disgustingly but nevertheless finds pleasure at looking at children this way. So why should we find him guilty and not choose instead for his betterment as he is just as much part of society as us all?

Because it was against the law.

He pleaded guilty in February, and on Friday, US. District Judge John Z. Lee sentenced him to 10 years in federal prison.

“Production and receipt of child pornography are extraordinarily serious offenses that threaten the safety of our children and communities,” Assistant U.S. Attorney Katherine Neff Welsh said in the government’s sentencing memorandum. “Jones’ actions took something from his victims and their families that they will never be able to get back.”

But why is it against the law? Sounds to me like the effects and indoctrination of a judeo christian worldview that says God places eternal value and ultimate protection of children is being used to detrimentally taint our legal system to me-doesnt it this seem true to you as well?

Because a secular Government of we the people, for the people, and by the people made the “production and receipt of child pornography” a crime because it “threatens the safety of our children and communities”.

I don’t believe that is true. I think it has more to do with secular humanistic morals, values, and ethics from the Enlightment period of our history.

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But how are a few pictures truly unsafe for our communities? The same could be said of legalizing prostitution, gambling, legalizing pot, encouraging public intoxication. Really Patrick? You sound to me like a Christian bigot shrouded as an atheist

You can put up all the Bible verses you want Greg. You just can’t do it on government owned public property. That’s the law.


Child porn is and should be a crime. And it is, everywhere in the United States. The man pleaded guilty to a crime and he was sentenced to 10 years in jail. He had an attorney who probably got him the best sentence possible. Justice was served. Will it restore the harm done to these children? -no.
Will it deter other adults from doing similar crimes? - Hopefully.

No, not the same at all. I am all for decriminizing adult non-forced prostitution like in Amsterdam or Nevada. I am for legalizing gambling as in the sports betting in NJ. I am for legalizing pot in New Jersey. I am against public intoxication and especially DWI.

No just a good law abiding citizen who happens to NOT be a Christian or be affiliated with any religion.

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Well i agree. But i still have not heard an adequate answer as to why it should be. What is the underlying basis why it is criminal? Is it because that child has not the capabilities of reasoning to steer away from exploitive people? But that could be said of 17 yr olds. Is it because taking these photos is demonstratively evil? You would say there is no such thing as evil.
And relativism says the human body is just matter consisting of majority water and carbon, so photographs of it should never be thought of as criminal no matter the age.

So obviously im playing to your side. If morals are relative then someday some govt leader is going to come along and make the arguements i am making as a devils advocate here and there is NOTHING that your view of morality can truly do about it. On the other hand, the judeo christian worldview that says that God made man in His own image with value, purpose, meaning as a reflection of His glory has eternally powerful principles for fighting such moral decline into the filth of such depravity.

And dont think humankind is immune to this. Right now in this world Christians who care for the sick, bandage the wounded and dig clean drinking water wells for the poor are being slaughtered just because they are the infidel. Any so called Christian who would reciprocate is not Christian