Except while this happens over thousands of years in evolution, the young earth version of your model requires that species erupt every ten minutes. Hence the question as to how this happens.
This isnât just dogs giving birth to cats. Itâs puppies giving birth to kittens that are already pregnant with mongooses.
can you show how did you got that number?
So, common descent then. God is not even faking the evidence for common descenât, heâs literally doing it? Uhm, okay.
Two different ways:
- (Minutes in day) * (Average duration of species) / (Time since first vertebrates appeared)
1440 * 5000000 / 520000000 = 13 minutes
- (Minutes in a day) / (Number of species of e.g. voles)
1440 / 155 = 9 minutes
So:
How does a new species erupt every ten minutes?
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Whence cometh this about âseparate creationâ? When was that a rule of creation? What does that even mean? Perhaps you have some advice for God?
In one command, God called forth the entire order of primates. In an OE progressive setting that initiated a branching process of speciation that lasted 60 million years. When it was time for OW monkeys to split from NE monkeys why would God go back to the beginning and construct OW monkeys from the original template? He had already given the command and the process was churning, progressing. Your idea of âseparate creationâ would completely gum up the works. Again, you will have to take up your complaint with God, because it wasnât part of the plan.
There are many fields of study in which God is not deemed relevant.
Algebra. Is algebra anti-theistic, or is it neutral with respect to God?
Mechanical engineering. Is mechanical engineering anti-theistic, or is it neutral with respect to God?
I could go on for days, literally. But Iâll pause here and see what thoughts you have, Ashwin.
Best,
Chris
I thought thatâs what you were talking about. So you are completely agreeing with common descent? Or is that just common descent within primates? If so, what is a mammal?
Where did he call them forth from? Did he poof the original primate population into existence? Why do primates appear to be related to other mammals in the same way that different primate species appear to be related to each other?
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H Sapiens are in the primates order. Your statements seem to imply that humans, apes, new world monkeys, and all other primates share a common ancestry. Am I understanding you correctly, @noUCA?
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Also, it seems that you are now denying a six-day creation. Is that correct?
I have mentioned this before to dale also. There are fields of study which could be done without involving God (atleast at a very superficial level) and fields which would be incomplete without God⌠for example the study of human consciousnessâŚ
When scientists study things like consciousness, a bias is automatically present because of methodological naturalism.
It is also compelling evidence for a sole Creator.
In a physical sense, this evidence of nature would be hard for a creationist to get around (though they may possibly evoke the spiritual to lift-out and elevate Man from the physical, something the naturalist could only complain about but not obviate.)
However, common ancestry does not require a common ancestor â a mysterious and unknown pre-history creature that Man and animals are related to.
I keep speaking about God creating and calling forth âat the top of creation day sixâ. I wonder where you came up with this? No, I do not deny a six day creation.
This is common genetic creation template talk
Uhm, yes it does, by definition. If you have ancestry, you have ancestors. If you have common ancestry, you have common ancestors. Otherwise youâre talking about something else than common ancestry. Perhaps you mean common origins of independent lineages(for example chimps have an ancestral lineage, that terminates in a first ancestor of all chimps, which itself was created by God, and likewise for humans, there is a first ancestor, which itself was created by God), which isnât exactly the same as common ancestry. But again, that would be common origins of an independent lineage, not common ancestry.
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Interesting. Perhaps my answer was a gloss and I need to consider this more carefully. Thanks.
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Perhaps if you stopped being so obscure and just laid out a clear scenario I wouldnât be so confused about what youâre saying. How is it possible for there to be both common descent among all primates over millions of years and for there to be a six-day creation of species a few thousand years ago?
Well, apparently I am not the one being obscure? Now you want to add the phrase âa few thousand years agoâ to your question. That changes everything. Only YECs believe in 6 days a few thousand years ago, and while they are certainly entitled to that belief, progressives count âdaysâ in the millions of years. Please be more specific when asking your questions and you will get more specific answers.
Not in my experience, so far. Do I understand that you intend the six days of creation to encompass the entire 13-billion-year history of the universe up until some fairly recent time? But why were plants created before animals? Thatâs not what we see. How can you reconcile these separate âdaysâ with earth history? But OK. What happened during these âdaysâ? Common descent within âkindsâ? Common descent of all animals? All mammals? All primates including humans? Please specify your scenario. Is that specific enough for you?
When will you be explaining the genetic criteria you use to determine non-relatedness as opposed to genetic template use?
Is that specific enough?