# Creation Myths: A chat with Michael Behe on Irreducible Complexity

**URL:** <https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/creation-myths-a-chat-with-michael-behe-on-irreducible-complexity/13429>\
**Category:** Conversation\
**Tags:** Science, Design\
**Created:** [March 22, 2021, 5:07am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/creation-myths-a-chat-with-michael-behe-on-irreducible-complexity/13429 "2021-03-22T05:07:42Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 1\
**Showing post:** 42

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**Author:** ![Rumraket](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/rumraket/32/9328_2.png) [@Rumraket](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/Rumraket)\
**Post date:** [March 27, 2021, 2:41pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/creation-myths-a-chat-with-michael-behe-on-irreducible-complexity/13429/42 "2021-03-27T14:41:28Z")

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This is exactly what is said:  
At about 13 minutes in Dan takes about one minute to list things he considers non-Darwinian mechanisms and causes of change. He mentions (among other things) neutral theory, exaptation, horizontal gene transfer, epigenetics, then says:

**Dan:** The reason I harp on this is I wanna make sure I have this crystal clear.  
**Dan:** When we say a system has irreducible complexity - does it preclude evolution by all these mechanisms - just the ones from 1859 - just the ones from the 1940s…?  
**Behe:** Well - I, I’m glad to say it precludes them by all those processes you just mentioned…  
**Dan:** Okay.  
**Behe:** …I just wanna say that, in my mind, I consider them all random changes, remember Darwin didn’t know about mutations or anything - he said random changes plus natural selection - and you got look at each of them carefully - I think neutral mutation fits happily into Darwinian evolution except that the mutation has a selection coefficient of 0 instead of a negative or a positive one - uh, so… so that doesn’t strike me as a big deal.  
**Behe:** And gene duplication - meh that’s fine that’s _one_ event though. Ahh so, yeah - _any_ unguided processes.  
**Dan:** Alright, any unguided pro…(?)  
**Behe:** _Nods_  
**Dan:** Okay, any unguided processes!  
**Behe:** Right.

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