# Dr. Joshua Swamidass and TMR4A: Some Major Modeling Problems for Young Earth Creationism

**URL:** <https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/dr-joshua-swamidass-and-tmr4a-some-major-modeling-problems-for-young-earth-creationism/12340>\
**Category:** Conversation\
**Tags:** Science, Theology\
**Created:** [November 3, 2020, 3:05am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/dr-joshua-swamidass-and-tmr4a-some-major-modeling-problems-for-young-earth-creationism/12340 "2020-11-03T03:05:55Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 1\
**Showing post:** 106

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![thoughtful](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/thoughtful/32/9230_2.png) [@thoughtful](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/thoughtful)\
**Post date:** [November 17, 2020, 2:20pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/dr-joshua-swamidass-and-tmr4a-some-major-modeling-problems-for-young-earth-creationism/12340/106 "2020-11-17T14:20:25Z")

</div>

> [@RonSewell](#):
>
> Did all those papers which have been linked demonstrating Y-chromosome and mtDNA data in keeping with evolutionary timelines - just disappear? vamoosh? 🕳 😮

I guess so. Please show me where they have been linked.

I checked back when I came here and literally knew **not a thing** about genetics and asked about Jeanson’s y-chromosome work back in July.

Now I see @evograd gave me this mess with a rate that probably wasn’t pulled directly from a y-chromosome study. No one has shown me that there are more than 4 y-chromosome studies - maybe he can show me where the rate is in one of those studies.  
[Testing Jeanson's Model: Y Chromosome Mutation Rates - #32 by evograd](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/testing-jeansons-model-y-chromosome-mutation-rates/11147/32)

And then @swamidass basically rebuts him and says, we calculate the rate based on the evolutionary time scale

> [@Testing Jeanson's Model: Y Chromosome Mutation Rates](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/testing-jeansons-model-y-chromosome-mutation-rates/11147/43):
>
> That’s not true @r_speir. Mt-Eve and Y-Adam are expected to be a few hundred thousand years in the past. We get the mutation rate, however, this way: The formula is pretty simple: Rate x Time = Distance.

I finally realize that @swamidass is concentrating on the genome and ask him why. [Testing Jeanson's Model: Y Chromosome Mutation Rates - #25 by thoughtful](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/testing-jeansons-model-y-chromosome-mutation-rates/11147/25)

I finally realize maybe no one here is getting why anyone would focus on the y-chromosome. [Valerie: Questions about TMR4A - #39 by thoughtful](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/valerie-questions-about-tmr4a/12384/39)

And then recently @Rumraket asked about this, and I said Jeanson tested both the evolutionary time scale and a creationist time scale. [Valerie: Questions about TMR4A - #225 by thoughtful](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/valerie-questions-about-tmr4a/12384/225)

And he never replied to rebut it.

So what am I left with? All I can tell is that @GutsickGibbon has given me the best argument so far on why Jeanson and Carter are wrong, and that it’s this:

> [@GutsickGibbon](#):
>
> Jeanson uses bad sampling and has incredible error bars.  
> Carter falls prey to the same issues by citing many of the same folks Jeanson uses.

---

_[View the full topic](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/dr-joshua-swamidass-and-tmr4a-some-major-modeling-problems-for-young-earth-creationism/12340)._