Faith, Works, and Paul

This would have been very threatening to those in power. This was something more subversive than they could have imagined.


So much so, that the New Testament writings were considered seditious literature in the Roman Empire, and you could be killed if found carrying it upon your person.
That led to them being published in small, “paperback” codex form, so they could be easily hidden in the folds of a garment.
Its just another reason why, compared to ANY other form of ancient literature, there are thousands of times more remaining copies or fragments than anything by the Greek philosophers, the Roman orators or historians, the classical poets, or anything else.
The very proliferation of such manuscripts speaks of their universal appeal and widespread circulation among citizens hailing from across the ancient civilized world.
Paul’s famous defense before King Agrippa is still pertinent: “These things were not done in a corner…”

Hi Mark. I was not really aware of the differences betw catholicism and eastern orthodoxy. So i did some brief research and found this blurb online as a reference to eastern orthodoxy and im really curious about your thoughts:

"By these acts of salvation, Christ provided fallen mankind with the path to escape its fallen nature. The Eastern Orthodox Church teaches that through baptism into Christ’s death, and our death unto sin in repentance, with God’s help we can also rise with Christ into heaven, healed of the breach of our fallen nature and restored to God’s grace. To Orthodox Christians, this process is what is meant by “salvation,” which consists of the Christian life.

Is this true of Eastern Orthodoxy and what you subscribe to? The part that says, “With God’s help, we can also rise…” This has me puzzled.

I personally believe that the Scriptures support the idea that those not in Christ are spiritually dead and it is Christ alone who gives them new life, they are new creatures in Christ, and the Holy Spirit is deposited into their soul as a GUARANTEE of salvation. All of that love given to us by a good God is the lifeblood of one desiring to love Him in return in obedience.

Is this different than your Eastern Orthodox views? Would you be willing to help me understand?

Greg, you’re a Calvinist, right?

If so, I can explain the difference between Eastern Orthodoxy and your belief all day and I won’t even scratch the surface.

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Im not sure i like that label “calvinist” bc it can drum up ideas about me which i dont subscribe. I see Gods sovereignty in Scripture AND mans responsibility. In salvation, i believe we are responsible to share the gospel and to vocalize the goodness and love of a God who forgives which God uses as the means of Him giving life. One person sows, another waters, God causes the growth.

I can find info easily enough on the internet on the difference betw eastern orthodoxy and the catholic faith. Im just curious if individual persons who practice these faiths actually practice in a mindset in line with teachings.

So i am curious about the eastern orthodox teaching about salvation-the quote i pasted i think fr wikipedia -is that accurate? How does it manifest itself in real thinking and action in real people who abide by such teaching?

Im not meaning to pry. Im am just so curious and i care for people so want to learn how to move the church towards a unity amongst bretheren that is founded upon Biblical realities which encourages more into true understanding. More who find the Treasure is always better.

Does this make sense?

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Hi @Djordje,
I am not a Calvinist. I also think spelling out what you believe clearly will take the conversation forward.
Some readers may understand, most may disagree… however thats how conversations work.

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Hi Greg,
What do you understand by “spiritually dead”?
Can you explain.
I will answer once I understand what you mean.

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For a physically dead person, his spirit is separate from his body. For a spiritually dead person, his spirit is seperarate from God. There is an enmity with God because of Sin.
I understand it this way. Does it make sense to you?

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Alright, this is gonna take a while.

First, Original Sin: we’re not as influenced by Augustine as western church, so a lot of us don’t believe in the Original Sin at all. The official position is that every human being (Christian or not) has an inherent goodness in himself/herself as well as evil and thus, our choices in this life matter, baptism doesn’t guarantee shit.

Meaning, we most certainly don’t believe in inherent guilt.

Christ’s crucifixion and resurrection: church as a whole doesn’t believe that Jesus’ death on the cross is a sacrifice to God like seemingly all other churches do so here, views might vary. My own belief is that his death and resurrection are a revelation rather than sacrifice.

Now, some might say that undermines his role in salvation but I have to disagree. After all, if I’m right than it’s his teachings that lead to salvation.

Indeed, if it’s revelation than it isn’t his resurrection that was the greatest proof of his divinity, it was him deciding not to seek vengeance on those who wrongfully executed him, despite having power to do so. Instead, he prayed for them to be forgiven.

I’ll continue later.


8 posts were split to a new topic: Greg and John Discuss His Critique of Evolution

Oh @Greg here is our honest uncensored opinion of inherent guilt.

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No… only God can do this. And he does this through Jesus Christ, when the person accepts the Gospel.

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God promises everyone who would believe the Gospel that he would grant them new life in Jesus.

God knew/knows who would believe and who would not.

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Nobody ever doubts that Calvinists and Arminians are both Christians… What I stated above is in line with classical Arminian theology.
If you want to understand the difference with respect to Calvinism, you can have a look at this site which plots the main differences with respect to sorteriology.