# Grieve the Segregation of Science

**URL:** <https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/grieve-the-segregation-of-science/10828>\
**Category:** Peaceful Science\
**Tags:** Science\
**Created:** [June 1, 2020, 2:52pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/grieve-the-segregation-of-science/10828 "2020-06-01T14:52:17Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 7\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![swamidass](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/swamidass/32/3_2.png) [@swamidass](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/swamidass)\
**Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 2:52pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/grieve-the-segregation-of-science/10828/1 "2020-06-01T14:52:17Z")

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Race is among the more difficult topics to deal with in our society. It is just such a mess. This article I wrote from 2018 seems appropriate now to remember.

> **[Essay: "Grieve the Segregation of Science" by S. Joshua Swamidass](https://godandnature.asa3.org/essay-grieve-the-segregation-of-science-by-s-joshua-swamidass.html)**
>
>  By S. Joshua Swamidass 

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**Author:** ![T\_aquaticus](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/t_aquaticus/32/1249_2.png) [@T\_aquaticus](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/T_aquaticus)\
**Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 6:13pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/grieve-the-segregation-of-science/10828/2 "2020-06-01T18:13:50Z")

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My initial reaction is that the problem starts at the undergrad level. I could be wrong, but if you have decent grades (3.0+) you should be able to get into a graduate school somewhere. At least in the biological fields, you get paid to go to grad school so that removes a lot of the financial barriers for financially challenged students. I find it hard to believe that this is a problem with grad school admissions, but I am very open to be proven wrong.

It would seem that the major problem is black students don’t aren’t getting science degrees at the undergrad level. Being a white male I have no idea what the challenges are for black students who want to get into the sciences, and I would love to hear what they are.

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**Author:** ![swamidass](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/swamidass/32/3_2.png) [@swamidass](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/swamidass)\
**Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 6:28pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/grieve-the-segregation-of-science/10828/3 "2020-06-01T18:28:32Z")

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One of the biggest fall offs, perhaps surprisingly or not, is between undergrad and graduate school. Proportionally more science-adept black students end up choosing medicine over science.

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**Author:** ![T\_aquaticus](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/t_aquaticus/32/1249_2.png) [@T\_aquaticus](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/T_aquaticus)\
**Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 8:53pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/grieve-the-segregation-of-science/10828/4 "2020-06-01T20:53:19Z")

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> [@swamidass](#):
>
> Proportionally more science-adept black students end up choosing medicine over science.

I didn’t know that. Interesting.

Medicine can be more lucrative and stable, so I can certainly see why people would be drawn to those professions. Constantly fighting for grant money can be a scary proposition, although there are career paths in industry and government if the Darwinian grant process isn’t for you.

I also found this interesting article, and it mentions WUSTL.

> [@](#):
>
> “At first, it was nerve-racking to be dropped into the lab and told, ‘Do this’ and ‘Do that.’ I was, like, ‘What am I doing here? I have no idea what they’re talking about,’” said Marjorie Bowen-Kauth, a black rising sophomore at Howard University who goes by her middle name, Sapphire. She hopes to get a combined medical and doctoral degree in neurobiology and spent seven to eight hours in the lab each weekday during the summer at Duke doing graduate-level research.
> 
> Bowen-Kauth’s anxiety began to fade soon, and by the end of the third week, she felt as if she had it all in hand. “I think doing these things definitely does give you a big advantage,” she said.
> 
> Many of these programs help prospective graduate students focus on such issues as a lack of knowledgeable contacts and low self-assurance.
> 
> “Before I did my internship, I thought I’d never get into an Ivy because I lacked confidence,” said Gwenaëlle Thomas, who went through the Duke summer program in 2015 as a rising senior at the University of Maryland, Baltimore County. She is now a Ph.D. candidate in the neurobiology department at Duke.
> 
> “It took a weight off to hear, ‘Not only are you competitive but you’re also very smart,’ ” said Thomas, who identifies as Afro-Latinx. “I hadn’t really heard that before, and it also influenced the schools I applied to.” In addition to Duke, Thomas applied to and was accepted by Washington University in St. Louis, Emory, Columbia, Baylor and Weill Cornell Medicine.  
> [The odds are stacked against black, Latino students going to grad school. Here are some solutions | PBS NewsHour](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/education/the-odds-are-stacked-against-black-latino-students-going-to-grad-school-here-are-some-solutions)

I have actually worked with undergrads in summer internships like the one described in the article, and it has been rewarding to see students gain confidence in the lab. After being in the lab for decades I think you can forget how intimidating it was at the start. It’s good to see that there are programs like that which are focused on black and hispanic students.

Thanks for starting this thread, and I am interested in hearing about other peoples’ experiences. I think we would all benefit from a more diverse scientific community, especially within religious affiliations.

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**Author:** ![stlyankeefan](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/stlyankeefan/32/3773_2.png) [@stlyankeefan](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/stlyankeefan)\
**Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 9:29pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/grieve-the-segregation-of-science/10828/5 "2020-06-01T21:29:18Z")

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I suspect a lot of it is self-perpetuating due to lack of role models. Black high school students with an interest in science don’t see black research scientists, so they don’t consider it as a career option. When I was doing research, my PI was Nigerian. He actively recruited black high school students and undergrads for summer internships. Many of these students went on to grad school.

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**Author:** ![Argon](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/argon/32/3896_2.png) [@Argon](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/Argon)\
**Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 1:42pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/grieve-the-segregation-of-science/10828/6 "2020-06-02T13:42:44Z")

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> [@swamidass](#):
>
> Proportionally more science-adept black students end up choosing medicine over science.

Yes. Lots of factors: Role models, potential earnings in the profession, cultures, etc. In academia in the 80s I encountered more Africa and South American scientists and students than those who grew up in the US of African or South American ancestry. But that’s been changing over the years. Slowly, but definitely changing.

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**Author:** ![Art](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/art/32/3805_2.png) [@Art](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/Art)\
**Post date:** [June 3, 2020, 4:49am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/grieve-the-segregation-of-science/10828/7 "2020-06-03T04:49:45Z")

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> [@T\_aquaticus](#):
>
> Thanks for starting this thread, and I am interested in hearing about other peoples’ experiences. I think we would all benefit from a more diverse scientific community, especially within religious affiliations.

Several years ago, when I was looking to fill REU positions, I cold-called a professor at Kentucky State University, an HBCU about 30 miles from the University of Kentucky. That call led to a collaboration that involved two of her students (one who worked in my lab for a summer) and three publications co-authored by KSU faculty and students. During the school year, I traveled the 30 miles once or twice a month to visit with the group. I think that, by meeting them in a familiar setting during the school year, the students were much more at ease.