# Herman Mays Accuses Joshua Swamidass

**URL:** <https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/herman-mays-accuses-joshua-swamidass/11178>\
**Category:** Side Conversation\
**Tags:** Science, Theology, Society\
**Created:** [July 20, 2020, 3:46pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/herman-mays-accuses-joshua-swamidass/11178 "2020-07-20T15:46:56Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 12\
**Page:** 5

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**Author:** ![Herman\_Mays](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/herman_mays/32/8086_2.png) [@Herman\_Mays](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/Herman_Mays)\
**Post date:** [July 20, 2020, 7:39pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/herman-mays-accuses-joshua-swamidass/11178/82 "2020-07-20T19:39:26Z")

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> [@John\_Harshman](#):
>
> Don’t see the point when we have “evolutionary biologist” as an unambiguous term.

OK I will at your request for the time being not refer to myself as an evolutionist because of the creationist misrepresentation. Are we cool now.

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**Author:** ![Herman\_Mays](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/herman_mays/32/8086_2.png) [@Herman\_Mays](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/Herman_Mays)\
**Post date:** [July 20, 2020, 7:40pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/herman-mays-accuses-joshua-swamidass/11178/83 "2020-07-20T19:40:20Z")

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Except I do not see it as disrespectful to call someone an evolutionist.

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**Author:** ![dga471](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/dga471/32/5233_2.png) [@dga471](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/dga471)\
**Post date:** [July 20, 2020, 7:55pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/herman-mays-accuses-joshua-swamidass/11178/84 "2020-07-20T19:55:50Z")

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Let me give a more extreme, hypothetical example to illustrate the point. Suppose I was invited to debate a YEC at a conference organized by them, and the speaker bios were given as the following:

> Dr. XXX Smith is a Bible-believing, Harvard-trained scientist who upholds the doctrine of creation and the necessity of proclaiming the gospel.  
> Daniel Ang is an Asian evolutionist who describes himself as a Christian.

Now, it’s not always offensive to call someone Asian, evolutionist, or describing himself as Christian. But you can see how the above presentation would be problematic?

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**Author:** ![dga471](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/dga471/32/5233_2.png) [@dga471](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/dga471)\
**Post date:** [July 20, 2020, 9:58pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/herman-mays-accuses-joshua-swamidass/11178/85 "2020-07-20T21:58:02Z")

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26 posts were split to a new topic: [Religious faith and interest in basic science](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/religious-faith-and-interest-in-basic-science/11186)

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**Author:** ![Herman\_Mays](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/herman_mays/32/8086_2.png) [@Herman\_Mays](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/Herman_Mays)\
**Post date:** [July 20, 2020, 7:57pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/herman-mays-accuses-joshua-swamidass/11178/86 "2020-07-20T19:57:43Z")

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OK Daniel. Point taken. Are we done on this one?

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**Author:** ![sfmatheson](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/sfmatheson/32/22811_2.png) [@sfmatheson](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/sfmatheson)\
**Post date:** [July 20, 2020, 8:24pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/herman-mays-accuses-joshua-swamidass/11178/92 "2020-07-20T20:24:13Z")

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> [@Herman\_Mays](#):
>
> I do not see it as disrespectful to call someone an evolutionist.

At significant personal expense, I have employed a large-mammal veterinarian who has examined this horse and certified that it is not merely dead, but really most sincerely dead. I think she meant that the horse is even beyond the help of any god. She also mentioned something about not awakening canines while they are in torpor, and that comment was a bit less clear to me.

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**Author:** ![Herman\_Mays](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/herman_mays/32/8086_2.png) [@Herman\_Mays](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/Herman_Mays)\
**Post date:** [July 20, 2020, 8:25pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/herman-mays-accuses-joshua-swamidass/11178/93 "2020-07-20T20:25:54Z")

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Did she also say anything about excessive use of metaphor?

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**Author:** ![sfmatheson](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/sfmatheson/32/22811_2.png) [@sfmatheson](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/sfmatheson)\
**Post date:** [July 20, 2020, 8:27pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/herman-mays-accuses-joshua-swamidass/11178/94 "2020-07-20T20:27:52Z")

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She’s not that kind of doctor.

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**Author:** ![Timothy\_Horton](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/timothy_horton/32/9410_2.png) [@Timothy\_Horton](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/Timothy_Horton)\
**Post date:** [July 20, 2020, 10:05pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/herman-mays-accuses-joshua-swamidass/11178/118 "2020-07-20T22:05:21Z")

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> [@sfmatheson](#):
>
> At significant personal expense, I have employed a large-mammal veterinarian who has examined this horse and certified that it is not merely dead, but really most sincerely dead

I read that as “large-mammary veterinarian”. 😮

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**Author:** ![John\_Harshman](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/john_harshman/32/1121_2.png) [@John\_Harshman](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/John_Harshman)\
**Post date:** [July 20, 2020, 11:46pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/herman-mays-accuses-joshua-swamidass/11178/119 "2020-07-20T23:46:56Z")

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Depends on who’s doing the calling, right?

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**Author:** ![Herman\_Mays](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/herman_mays/32/8086_2.png) [@Herman\_Mays](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/Herman_Mays)\
**Post date:** [July 21, 2020, 12:59am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/herman-mays-accuses-joshua-swamidass/11178/120 "2020-07-21T00:59:31Z")

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I honestly don’t care. You guys are much more offended by it than I am. You seem even a little offended that I’m not offended by it. Which I find particularly weird.

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**Author:** ![swamidass](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/swamidass/32/3_2.png) [@swamidass](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/swamidass)\
**Post date:** [July 21, 2020, 2:29pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/herman-mays-accuses-joshua-swamidass/11178/122 "2020-07-21T14:29:36Z")

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