Indiana Satanists Adopt a Highway

(Dr. Patrick Trischitta) #1

(Dan Eastwood) #2

It’s not like Indianna lacks signs from the other team.

(S. Joshua Swamidass) #3

I don’t object to these posts @Patrick, but perhaps explain a bit for the poor religious folk that come by why this is important to atheists. They do not have enough context to make sense of this, and Friendly Atheist is not really that friendly.

(George) #4

Until @patrick responds… i can point out that if ID lobbyists ever get what they want (Bible taught in public schools)… the Satanists will be next in line… forcing the teaching of Satanism in public schools.

(Jonathan) #5

That is an irony that is very unfortunate for the atheist community. If the friendly atheists are not really that friendly, then what does that say about atheists in general? I by no means think that all atheists are necessarily immoral or “unfriendly,” but I think that the irony you pointed out there does not do atheists any favors when it comes to such impressions.

(S. Joshua Swamidass) #6

Very true but also remember Christians have a similar problem. Same is true for YECs. Those most visible are not usually the best example of thier kind.

That why is important to keep in mind the friendly atheists and Agnostics in our midst: @argon, @Dan_Eastwood, @nwrickert, @T_aquaticus, @Art, and others. And apologies if I misdescribed anyone’s views here.

(Neil Rickert) #7

There really isn’t an “atheist community”. There are just atheists. They are mostly not a community.

The ones that you notice are what we might call “outspoken atheists”. But many are much quieter about their atheism.

(John Dalton) #8

Indeed. As odd as Satanists may seem in various respects, they often perform a valuable public service :slight_smile: My impression is that for many Satanists (probably the great majority of those in the US today at least), acting as a foil to religion and various efforts to insert religion into the public sphere is far more of “a thing” than any kind of sincere belief in Satan. The latter is often totally absent I believe.

It could be true. He’s a bit abrasive honestly :slight_smile: Us friendly atheists should complain :slight_smile:

I would tend to disagree. In recent years, it’s becoming much more of a reality.

(Dan Eastwood) #9

I cannot emphasize enough how strongly I agree with this, or count the number of times I have tried to express this idea to others (usually friendly Christians). Athiesm is very much a “club for people who do not play golf.”

(Dan Eastwood) #10

If I am ever insufficiently friendly, don’t hesitate to say so. Hopefully it will just be a bad day.

(Jonathan) #11

I assure you, I honestly do not mean to come across as abrasive :slight_smile: .

(Dan Eastwood) #12

The only Satanist I have encountered in the atheism community where I moderate, is a Laveyan Satanist. These people are (IMO) essentially atheists with nothing better to do than troll Christians. If were you I’d be more worried about the Pastafarians.

BUT I do recall a story about Satanists trying to distribute materials in a school, resulting in a ban of promoting any religion in the school. Somehow I think that was the real goal all along, and Satatism was just a ploy.

(S. Joshua Swamidass) #13

I think @Patrick has some control here.

I want these news items to be posted, because I think they can help improve understanding. I’m hoping that we can find some better news sources, perhaps even doing the work of getting the primary reports. The rhetoric at friendly atheist is not really helpful in a secular context, unless the rhetoric itself is the point of the post.

That is exactly what they are. The best way to respond to trolling like this is to see it for what it is instead of what it pretends to be. In this case, that should take the pressure down several notches.

(John Dalton) #14

He is really “the guy” though for bringing these kinds of instances out of the realm of local news reports and to the greater public attention. He gets a bit happy about it in his writing style, which I find excessive at times, but I will give him credit for doing the legwork. I can’t think of any comparable blogger off the top of my head. He’s probably friendly in person too :slight_smile:

(S. Joshua Swamidass) #15

Why not just post the original reports?

(John Dalton) #16

I can understand that from your perspective trying to keep balance on this site. It would kind of feel like robbing him of his rightful thunder though

(S. Joshua Swamidass) #17

I just think he will make is point better if he explains it in his own words instead of linking to the the FA’s voice. The reason why this type of news item is important is that it creates opportunity for atheist concerns, which are often legitimate, to be understood. In many ways the satanist trope, and the pastafarianism, is making an effort to serve as a mirror to Christians, so that they can better understand how outsiders perceive their actions. That is important and valuable.

It looses that value to society when it merely provokes. There are actually thoughtful and teachable people here. Just provoking leaves many of us confused. Once we are ready to listen, it helps to just break it down and explain.

(Dr. Patrick Trischitta) #18

For the record, the Satanic Temple is an atheist group. To them, Satan is a literary figure in ancient stories that doesn’t get a fair shake. The Satanic Temple and the Church of the Giant Spaghetti monster are legal, registered religions who operate as an religious organization do. They are foils in the sense that as soon as Christian government officials put up a menorah next to a nativity scene in a government building or public park in the guise of inclusiveness at Christmas time, the Satanic Temple and the Church of the Giant Spaghetti Monster say “me too” or we will sue. Usually all public displays are then removed and government is secular again, which is what the constitution says. In the rare occasion, the Satanic Temple has place their goat headed Baphomet next to a Nativity scene at Christmas, the offended Christians get in a rage and pressure the Government to get rid of ALL religious displays. (I wish that we didn’t have to use this tactic, as it is very expensive to ship the heavy Baphomet and set it in place on concrete foundations. It never stays long as the Government would rather no displays rather than several contentious ones.)

(Greg) #19

I would respond to this that i have no desire that “ID Lobbyists” get the Bible taught in public schools as a fact. Nor do i believe that the darwinian theory of evolution, which in main principle should be taught in a way that is treated as factual either. If it cannot be proven with proven methodologies showing it in process, then for an ID to say they can disprove in the science classroom is futile. And the other way around.

Of course i would never want public schools today teaching the tenants of Christianity as these would morph into gobbity gook in a hurry and could cause for a mindset that Christianity is a cultural norm similar to being American bc we live in this country. Christianity is of course different all together if I read the Bible correctly.

What should be taught in the science classroom is three or four potential ideas about how life exists, which, in view of the issue of entropy should allow a mention of a cause outside our understanding and leave it at that. Make these a mention, then move on with talk of the laws of gravity, thermodynamics etc.

Meanwhile, the church must be busily speaking to people the idea of salvation from the sin problem we all have that when festering explains so well the nature of our daily news. The people in His church also need to promote the view that salvation from sin earns the greatest gift of Creator God who made the universe, people, animals and plants which solves the scientific and philosophical problem of entropy in a heartbeat.

(Dr. Patrick Trischitta) #20

The Darwinian theory of evolution is not taught in public schools, please see textbooks and up-to-date evolutionary science discussed here. The textbooks and curriculum are up to date evolutionary science. Science that is neutral on whether it is God guided or not.

You’re obviously not a science teacher, administrator or a member of the State’s Department of Education. Look at today’s Biology textbook, it has a unit on Crispr-Cas9. Is that up-to-date enough for you? Regarding gravity, thermodynamics, these are taught in Physics classes and Chemistry classes respectively. For what you are saying, you show yourself as a dinosaur or perhaps an ancient fossil. You haven’t kept up with the scientific and technological advances that has taken place and will continue to take place. Children in our public high schools should be learning the most advance science possible. It is Christians like you who are holding back the science education in the country for the sole reason of advancing your religion. It is morally and ethically wrong, as science is nuetral on religion and these children require a good science education to function in a modern secular scientific society.