# Institutional Review Boards for Artificial Intelligence?

**URL:** <https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/institutional-review-boards-for-artificial-intelligence/13975>\
**Category:** Peaceful Science\
**Created:** [July 14, 2021, 6:17pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/institutional-review-boards-for-artificial-intelligence/13975 "2021-07-14T18:17:01Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 10\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![system](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/peacefulscience/original/2X/6/6b7bf72453a5c60b0919b6b89a27dc18bc52382c.png) [@system](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/system)\
**Post date:** [July 14, 2021, 6:17pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/institutional-review-boards-for-artificial-intelligence/13975/1 "2021-07-14T18:17:01Z")

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![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/peacefulscience/original/2X/e/eb8ee182fb84896583e13849c4eeca577106eb3f.jpeg)

> **[Institutional Review Boards for Artificial Intelligence?](https://peacefulscience.org/articles/irb-ethics-artificial-intellligence/)**
>
> Drawing on the history of ethics in medicine, perhaps Institutional Review Boards (IRBs) could be how we ensure AI is ethical and good.

> Drawing on the history of ethics in medicine, perhaps Institutional Review Boards (IRBs) could be how we ensure AI is ethical and good.

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**Author:** ![swamidass](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/swamidass/32/3_2.png) [@swamidass](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/swamidass)\
**Post date:** [July 14, 2021, 6:52pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/institutional-review-boards-for-artificial-intelligence/13975/2 "2021-07-14T18:52:20Z")

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Pinned globally on July 14, 2021, 6:52pm UTC



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**Author:** ![Dan\_Eastwood](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/dan_eastwood/32/2368_2.png) [@Dan\_Eastwood](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/Dan_Eastwood)\
**Post date:** [July 15, 2021, 3:07pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/institutional-review-boards-for-artificial-intelligence/13975/3 "2021-07-15T15:07:46Z")

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I foresee serious problems getting industry and commercial AI users to comply with anything like medical ethics. As Sci-Fi writer David Brin has suggested, we may need personal AI to defend ourselves from AI abuses.

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**Author:** ![Tim](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/tim/32/9381_2.png) [@Tim](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/Tim)\
**Post date:** [July 15, 2021, 5:06pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/institutional-review-boards-for-artificial-intelligence/13975/4 "2021-07-15T17:06:05Z")

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I agree. I’d expect significantly less transparency in AI than in medicine. Trade secrets, NDAs, etc, etc – and a lack of of the strong regulation that forces transparency on big business in the medical field.

This regulatory climate could change _if_ there was sufficient political will – but in today’s political climate in the US I don’t see it. Big Tech can afford the best lobbyists, and there isn’t much of a grassroots fear of AI.

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**Author:** ![Dan\_Eastwood](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/dan_eastwood/32/2368_2.png) [@Dan\_Eastwood](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/Dan_Eastwood)\
**Post date:** [July 15, 2021, 7:12pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/institutional-review-boards-for-artificial-intelligence/13975/5 "2021-07-15T19:12:14Z")

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When AI is applied to maximize company profits, it will do so ruthlessly. Even when constrained to “be nice to people”, it will find loopholes that may not be so nice for everyone. The trick will be to make ethics profitable.

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**Author:** ![Dan\_Eastwood](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/dan_eastwood/32/2368_2.png) [@Dan\_Eastwood](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/Dan_Eastwood)\
**Post date:** [July 16, 2021, 5:50pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/institutional-review-boards-for-artificial-intelligence/13975/6 "2021-07-16T17:50:56Z")

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In my LinkedIn notifications today. The future is here.

 ![linked](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/peacefulscience/original/2X/1/13337237a49e1345b580661f1850a39953129bf3.png)

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**Author:** ![Jordan](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/jordan/32/756_2.png) [@Jordan](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/Jordan)\
**Post date:** [July 20, 2021, 3:50pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/institutional-review-boards-for-artificial-intelligence/13975/7 "2021-07-20T15:50:26Z")

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I do think something similar to an IRB would be a good idea for AI. It’s interesting to me, having been on an IRB, to see the large push towards big data and analytics in higher ed without really any of the same guidelines we put on research (i.e. the IRB process). We have FERPA and HIPPA, but those are centered on privacy, not whether the “research” we’re doing is ethical or a “good idea” in some sense. All the textbook publishers are now clearly angling for an AI war trying to create the best adaptive assessment systems and most “powerful” analytics. So as a teacher what is my obligation to my students concerning their academic data? Some schools are tracking every place a student goes, every assignment they do, every post they make, trying to spot signs of “risk”. At some point is that all just too much?

I agree with @Dan_Eastwood and @Tim that it seems very difficult to enforce and IRB on AI companies. With human research the motivation is a combination of journals requiring IRB approval before publication and institutions not wanting to get sued. It may take a similar level of “threat” before the AI industry decides an IRB is a better alternative.

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**Author:** ![Tim](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/tim/32/9381_2.png) [@Tim](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/Tim)\
**Post date:** [July 20, 2021, 4:24pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/institutional-review-boards-for-artificial-intelligence/13975/8 "2021-07-20T16:24:18Z")

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> [@Jordan](#):
>
> I agree with @Dan_Eastwood and @Tim that it seems very difficult to enforce and IRB on AI companies. With human research the motivation is a combination of journals requiring IRB approval before publication and institutions not wanting to get sued. It may take a similar level of “threat” before the AI industry decides an IRB is a better alternative.

This brings to mind two questions:

1. To what extent does ‘publish or perish’ encapsulate the forces driving momentum in AI research? My impression was that it was more competitive commercial and strategic interests at play.

2. To what extent do breach of privacy (or other applicable) lawsuits impinge upon researchers making use of data, or even middle-men aggregating it, as opposed to those collecting it directly from the public?

I’d like to see _some_ ethical constraints on such activities (having read a large amount of dystopian cyberpunk in my 20s, demonstrating the downside of a lack of them), but have a suspicion that researchers may be largely insulated from the market forces underlying many of them.

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**Author:** ![Tim](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/tim/32/9381_2.png) [@Tim](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/Tim)\
**Post date:** [July 25, 2021, 7:14am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/institutional-review-boards-for-artificial-intelligence/13975/9 "2021-07-25T07:14:05Z")

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My second point of unethical researchers being potentially insulated from (lawsuit) consequences of their actions by middle-men is illustrated by this:

> **[Data Brokers are the Problem](https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2021/07/data-brokers-are-problem)**
>
> Why should you care about data brokers? Reporting this week about a Substack publication outing a priest with location data from Grindr shows once again how easy it is for anyone to take advantage of data brokers’ stores to cause real harm. This is...

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**Author:** ![system](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/peacefulscience/original/2X/6/6b7bf72453a5c60b0919b6b89a27dc18bc52382c.png) [@system](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/system)\
**Post date:** [August 1, 2021, 7:14am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/institutional-review-boards-for-artificial-intelligence/13975/10 "2021-08-01T07:14:20Z")

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Closed on August 1, 2021, 7:14am UTC

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