Is There Visible Proof of God?


(Guy Coe) #41

Good question.

(Dale Cutler) #42

That means they made sense to someone else besides me. :slightly_smiling_face:

(Dale Cutler) #43

That really is a rather noncommittal thing to say about Jesus. I could use a less PC adjective. :slightly_smiling_face: (I forget, are you a ‘new’ lacktheist kind of atheist? The same adjective applies.)

Jesus was either a raving lunatic or he was what he said he was. He was not just a ‘drifter preacher.’

“As long as you are proud you cannot know God. A proud man is always looking down on thing and people: and, of course, as long as you are looking down you cannot see something that is above you.”

― C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity

I dare you to read either one of those. A lot of people have become Christians through reading them. You would be putting yourself at serious risk. :slightly_smiling_face:

(Dale Cutler) #44

Anything you say* can and will be used against you in the Court of Law.

*blasphemously and derisively against the Lord of the universe and beyond

(Dale Cutler) #45

I’m sure that you’ve heard this argument before, that you weren’t really a Christian, but a Christian in name only. I will echo it. You may have affirmed Christian doctrine and the Gospel may have been appealing, but you never were a new person. There are some things you missed when reading through the Bible – at least some are listed here, that a true Christian can never go back: draft2 – The Christian's Confidence.docx - Google Drive

(There are many now in churches today, and there have been many in the past, who are or were ‘mere professors’, to use Spurgeon’s nineteenth century term.)

(John Harshman) #46

Dunno about other people, but I expect reasoned argument. Peaceful Science.

I thought he loved us. No?

(Dale Cutler) #47


(Dale Cutler) #48

I hope you noted the mentions of pride and humility. If someone belongs to God but is resisting him, he is quite capable of humbling that person. Many are the stories of people who have followed their own way to wealth or fame or any number of other idolotrous paths, only to have lost everything and been humbled in ways they didn’t realize they had actually been choosing.

Do any of you non- and anti-Christians know what the most frequent mandate in the Bible is (without surfing :slightly_smiling_face:)?

(Mikkel R.) #49

Thank you for stating your opinions about my past.

(Neil Rickert) #50

I was, of course, making a joke.

Whenever a non-believer mentions “the entire cosmos” he is accused of being a materialist. So I applied the same idea to @Guy_Coe when he use “the entire cosmos” as his argument.

In a way, you are supporting my point with your links suggesting that the entire cosmos is not enough.

(Dale Cutler) #51

I would suggest that he is not real pleased with those who refuse his free gift and spit in his face, returning to their rebellious thoughts and ways.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Please note: it says everyone who, that is not everyone. He so loved the world and wants to enlarge his adopted family to share his joy that he is patient through Christ’s work of love. Otherwise, the earth would have been a cinder long ago.

(Mikkel R.) #52

I want to convey to you of how little worth I find such veiled semi-threats. If for no other reason than perhaps it might inspire you to take another approach to arguing with atheists.

Imagine you go to an internet forum to have a conversation with people who are convinced that Star Wars is really real, and they start reading drafts of the script to A New Hope to you, revealed by the prophet George Lucas. You find it ridiculous of course and try to tell them, but then they start telling you about how if you don’t believe Star Wars is real, Emperor Palpatine and his apprentice Darth Vader might come and humble you.

Notice how this made you feel just now. Try to think about how little sleep you will lose over this going forward. Perhaps you will recall this some time tomorrow, and it will probably just make you smile and shake your head. Of all the things for you to take away from this conversation, please know that this is exactly how I feel as an atheist reading stories about how the God of the Bible will one day “humble” anyone.

(Dale Cutler) #53

I understood your irony. :roll_eyes: It wasn’t particularly subtle, speaking of subtlety. :slightly_smiling_face:

I do, however, miss your point about my supporting your point with those links.

(Dale Cutler) #54

Not opinion, just biblical facts. You are not lost beyond redemption. Yet.

(Mikkel R.) #55

Thank you for stating your opinions about the contents of the bible.

How do you know what the bible says is true, and that you understand it correctly?

(Dale Cutler) #56

It was not a threat, it was a statement of fact.

You presume to know my motivations for being here. I suspect that you are mistaken. What I hope is that someone who is capable of voluntarily humbling themselves might see the truth of the arguments and then become my co-adopted sibling and friend for eternity. (There are other benefits as well. :slightly_smiling_face:)

(Dale Cutler) #57

No takers?

(Herculean Skeptic) #58

I think that it is a good time to close this one down for a day, at least, to allow things to cool. It is good to have theological discussions and even to disagree. Disagreement becomes anger and then it gets personal. I’m not judging anyone here, just saying that it would be good to allow things to cool down for a bit.

(Mikkel R.) #59

Imagine that you inform the Star Wars fans that you used to believe you were a Jedi too but eventually stopped believing, and then they start saying you weren’t a true Star Wars Jedi because it says in one of the novels that real Jedis’ never quit the faith. But there’s still hope for you! Just close your eyes and accept the light side of the force into your heart. Before it’s too late and the Dark Side takes over!

(Dale Cutler) #60

There is a difference between fiction and reality, however. We live in a real cosmos that had a real beginning, and that correlates quite nicely with another reality, Genesis 1:1. It says there was a beginning. The reality of that same book says we live on a dying planet and that there will be a real end. (In fact, it evens predicts nations in dismay because of roaring seas, and megacryometeors, not to mention earthquakes, famines, fires and floods. Oh yeah, and wars and rumors of wars. Hyperinflation, too, I think.)