Kitzmiller, the Universe, and Everything


I see something that looks more like an artefact than a biological entity.

Now what?

issus-gear

I see something that looks more like a biological entity than an artefact.

Now what?

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but this also looks like artefact so there is no real difference:

Flying saucers do not come into exist thru unguided, biological processes. If you are calling things like the bacterial flagellum “motors”, then the same cannot be said for motors.

Who says he concludes something different when he sees a motor? The conclusion would depend on which motor was seen.

I think you miss my point: when it looks like an artefact you claim design, and when it looks like a biological entity you also claim design. So let’s turn this round: how would you conclude non-design?

How does it look like an artifact? To me, this looks like a natural feature which resulted from variation and natural selection.

On the other hand, I do not think UFO’s are credible, so I do not think the UFO in the picture was designed by LGM. The photo itself was designed though; that can be inferred from experience with photography.

this assume that a motor can evolve in the first place.

not just me but you actually conclude that.

because its looks like artefact.

Not at all.

This has been explained many times, but you and @colewd seem unable to understand or accept it. The reason we conclude things like mechanical motors made out of metal gears, wires, etc are designed is that we know that such things do not arise thru unguided natural processes, but are only created by human beings.

If we lived in a world where such motors, (along with computers, airplanes and other complex mechanical devices) had existed long before humans did, and arose thru unguided processes in which they were built by other motors, which in were themselves were built by other motors, and so on back in time, then we would be unable to determine if your “flying saucer” was just another such thing, and would have no idea if it was designed or had also arisen thru unguided processes.

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By finding a cause that does not require design to directly explain the effect such as water spilling to the ground. If the God of Abraham is real and he is the creator of the universe then if you continue to solve the how questions you will eventually conclude design so your question is interesting.

If you go down the rabbit hole to explain water falling to the ground you will eventually conclude design as your trying to explain the detail of how gravity works at the quantum level.

Since we’ve already found a cause and a mechanism for the patterns and diversity of biological life over deep time and in the total absence of any contradictory evidence that means we can conclude no design. Thanks for finally admitting what we’ve been explaining to you for years

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I agree with Tim “evolution” is settled science. :slight_smile:

The details aren’t settled. The fact evolution over deep time happened was settled over a century ago. Way to keep up with the times Bill.

Detecting manufacture in manufactured objects is the issue here. For motors of familiar manufactured types, I reach the same conclusion. However, there is no reason to believe that a flagellum is manufactured, whether one calls it a “motor” or not.

Can you stop this, please? We all understand what you’re doing: if you’d like to reach a conclusion, start by assuming the conclusion. Nobody is convinced. Nobody will ever be convinced because it is a completely ridiculous argument. Your endless repetition of it, and apparent unwillingness to listen to anything anyone has to say, is simply pointless.

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Of course the flagellum is manufactured. Do you understand the cellular protein manufacturing process?

Are we going to have to use the word “manufactured” metaphorically now? What would you call the process by which humans make items, if not manufacture? We do not “manufacture” wheat, we grow it. Flagella are grown, not manufactured.

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Really? Please explain how they are grown and not manufactured.

There are not enough palms, not enough foreheads, and not enough power of acceleration, for the dismayed forehead-slap which would be the only adequate reply to this post.

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Proteins are manufactured. Here is the process.

I usually find that this one fits the bill(pun incidental) quite nicely.

DeepFaceNine

I do enjoy the way that ID has progressed from its earlier stage, which consisted mostly of poorly composed word games, to its modern, more developed stage, which consists mostly of poorly composed word games. Keep living the dream! I’m sure that all biologists are on the verge of being fooled by the NEXT word game!

Until then, I am keeping my forehead-slappin’ helmet at the ready, as these things can hurt.

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