# Marcus Ross and Swamidass Debate

**URL:** <https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/marcus-ross-and-swamidass-debate/15256>\
**Category:** Public Square\
**Tags:** Adam, Science, Society\
**Created:** [July 21, 2022, 2:32am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/marcus-ross-and-swamidass-debate/15256 "2022-07-21T02:32:29Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 8\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![swamidass](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/swamidass/32/3_2.png) [@swamidass](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/swamidass)\
**Post date:** [July 21, 2022, 2:32am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/marcus-ross-and-swamidass-debate/15256/1 "2022-07-21T02:32:29Z")

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We now have the video from this debate:

[![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/peacefulscience/original/3X/f/7/f7660650848d6efb48f5db5b01ad2288c363c9c4.jpeg "Debate: What Should We Think of the Genealogical Adam & Eve?") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCyjDbahdr0)

> [@Creation Truth Conference: What Should Creationists Think About The Genealogical Adam and Eve?](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/creation-truth-conference-what-should-creationists-think-about-the-genealogical-adam-and-eve/14110):
>
> Friday Oct. 8 Debate with Q & A 7 pm – “What Should We Think About The Genealogical Adam and Eve?” Author: Dr. Joshua Swamidass, Assoc Professor at Washington University Response: Dr. Marcus Ross, Center for Creation Studies at Liberty University Moderator: Dr. Richard Averbeck, OT Professor at Trinity Evangelical Divinity School Dr. Marcus Ross holds a BS in Earth Science from the Penn State University and an MS in Vertebrate Paleontology from South Dakota School of Mines. His PhD in Environmental Science (Geoscience) is from the University of Rhode Island. Dr. Ross is the former Director of the Center for Creation Studies and Professor of Geology at Liberty University. He is the owner of Cornerstone Educational Supply. [Creation Truth Conf Summary 2021.pdf](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/uploads/short-url/haEyPmwrmpt4QHX40oTwSvVq0o8.pdf) (663.8 KB)

What are your thoughts?

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**Author:** ![John\_Harshman](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/john_harshman/32/1121_2.png) [@John\_Harshman](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/John_Harshman)\
**Post date:** [July 21, 2022, 4:01am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/marcus-ross-and-swamidass-debate/15256/2 "2022-07-21T04:01:43Z")

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I thought you were going to produce transcripts of these things.

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**Author:** ![swamidass](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/swamidass/32/3_2.png) [@swamidass](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/swamidass)\
**Post date:** [July 21, 2022, 4:07pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/marcus-ross-and-swamidass-debate/15256/3 "2022-07-21T16:07:50Z")

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On request! So yes, I can do that for this one 🙂

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**Author:** ![John\_Harshman](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/john_harshman/32/1121_2.png) [@John\_Harshman](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/John_Harshman)\
**Post date:** [July 21, 2022, 4:13pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/marcus-ross-and-swamidass-debate/15256/4 "2022-07-21T16:13:23Z")

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Meanwhile, what would you consider the most important points made by either of you?

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**Author:** ![swamidass](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/swamidass/32/3_2.png) [@swamidass](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/swamidass)\
**Post date:** [July 21, 2022, 4:19pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/marcus-ross-and-swamidass-debate/15256/5 "2022-07-21T16:19:03Z")

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I think the most important point is the intro…

> [@Creation Truth Conference: What Should Creationists Think About The Genealogical Adam and Eve?](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/creation-truth-conference-what-should-creationists-think-about-the-genealogical-adam-and-eve/14110/8):
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> Second, we both hold a high view of Scripture. We believe that God’s word is authoritative, powerful, and precious. Its revealed wisdom is our guiding light.

I’ve never heard a YEC of his stature say anything like this about a Christian that affirms evolution before. It is a really big deal, and essentially, from the perspective of my goals at a YeC conference, accomplishes everything I could hope to accomplish in the debate itself.

It may not be as clear to people outside this religious world to understand what he means here, but this is really significant.

I wonder if @Jordan , @dga471 , or @deuteroKJ can explain what a “high view” means in this context, and why YECs typically wouldn’t say it in this context, and what this could mean.

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**Author:** ![deuteroKJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/46a35a/32.png) [@deuteroKJ](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/deuteroKJ)\
**Post date:** [July 22, 2022, 8:37pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/marcus-ross-and-swamidass-debate/15256/6 "2022-07-22T20:37:39Z")

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> [@swamidass](#):
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> I wonder if @Jordan , @dga471 , or @deuteroKJ can explain what a “high view” means in this context, and why YECs typically wouldn’t say it in this context, and what this could mean.

“high view” is shorthand for either inerrancy or, at least, infallible (but infallible itself has four distinct definitions!). One with a “high view” accepts that the Bible provides divinely-revealed truth claims not necessarily accessible through other means.

Marcus (along with Todd Wood and Paul Garner) represent the best of YECs–intellectual honesty, charity and acceptance of other Christians (as Christians), and a true love of science. When Todd was doing his open discussions with Darrell Falk (resulting in [The Fool and the Heretic](https://www.amazon.com/Fool-Heretic-Scientists-Christian-Evolution/dp/0310595436?tag=swamidass-20)), he commented how much it affected him to pray and talk with a man with whom he disagreed with scientifically, but could not deny the man’s faith and sincerity.

Many YECs (and others) fall into the trap of confusing the veracity of Scripture with the veracity of their interpretations. Some things are just “so clear & obvious” (to them) that they can’t imagine an honest reader coming to a different conclusion.

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**Author:** ![thoughtful](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/thoughtful/32/9230_2.png) [@thoughtful](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/thoughtful)\
**Post date:** [July 22, 2022, 10:51pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/marcus-ross-and-swamidass-debate/15256/7 "2022-07-22T22:51:47Z")

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I haven’t watched the video yet, but I would take your word and also affirm that of you also. I just don’t think it’s possible to consistently read the Bible the way you do. 🙂

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**Author:** ![system](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/peacefulscience/original/2X/6/6b7bf72453a5c60b0919b6b89a27dc18bc52382c.png) [@system](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/system)\
**Post date:** [July 29, 2022, 10:52pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/marcus-ross-and-swamidass-debate/15256/8 "2022-07-29T22:52:12Z")

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