# Missing the Point on Ewert

**URL:** <https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/missing-the-point-on-ewert/799>\
**Category:** Side Conversation\
**Created:** [July 24, 2018, 9:05pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/missing-the-point-on-ewert/799 "2018-07-24T21:05:01Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![T.j\_Runyon](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/t.j_runyon/32/9662_2.png) [@T.j\_Runyon](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/T.j_Runyon)\
**Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 9:05pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/missing-the-point-on-ewert/799/1 "2018-07-24T21:05:01Z")

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> [@Uncommon or Common Descent?](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/uncommon-or-common-descent/776/9):
>
> Common Design explain s the data you presented.

How? It’s also worth pointing out compatible with != not evidence against. Common descent predicts such data. Nothing about design predicts a common design blueprint. So design may be able to explain it but it’s more probable on common ancestry.

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**Author:** ![JoeG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dc4da7/32.png) [@JoeG](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/JoeG)\
**Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 9:12pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/missing-the-point-on-ewert/799/2 "2018-07-24T21:12:59Z")

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How does Common Descent predict such data? You don’t even have a mechanism and without that you have no idea what pattern to expect.

Common Design expects similarities- we see that with buildings and houses build to the same code; PCs having the same hardware architecture; automobiles have many similarities within the brand and across the board.

An Intelligent Designer would not re-invent genes that code for proteins that are used throughout life.

Linnaean Classification- the nested hierarchy when it comes to biology- is based on a Common Design. Darwinists took it, replaced “archetype” with “common ancestor” just to show that they had an explanation for the pattern. Not that it- Common Descent- predicted it.

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**Author:** ![T.j\_Runyon](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/t.j_runyon/32/9662_2.png) [@T.j\_Runyon](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/T.j_Runyon)\
**Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 9:17pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/missing-the-point-on-ewert/799/3 "2018-07-24T21:17:23Z")

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> [@Uncommon or Common Descent?](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/uncommon-or-common-descent/776/11):
>
> How does Common Descent predict such data? You don’t even have a mechanism and without that you have no idea what pattern to expect.

We are talking common ancestry here. Not mechanism. Common ancestry can still be true (some ID proponents hold to it.) without a possible natural mechanism. The evidence for common ancestry is independent of mechanism. So your point there is irrelevant.

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**Author:** ![T.j\_Runyon](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/t.j_runyon/32/9662_2.png) [@T.j\_Runyon](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/T.j_Runyon)\
**Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 9:19pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/missing-the-point-on-ewert/799/4 "2018-07-24T21:19:19Z")

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And you know this designer has the same psychology and design tendencies as us how? How can you possibly know what a designer would and would not do? That is a huge assumption I will not grant.

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**Author:** ![T.j\_Runyon](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/t.j_runyon/32/9662_2.png) [@T.j\_Runyon](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/T.j_Runyon)\
**Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 9:21pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/missing-the-point-on-ewert/799/5 "2018-07-24T21:21:14Z")

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As far as how CA explains the data, @swamidass explained it very well in the link.

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**Author:** ![JoeG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dc4da7/32.png) [@JoeG](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/JoeG)\
**Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 9:22pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/missing-the-point-on-ewert/799/6 "2018-07-24T21:22:21Z")

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I use my knowledge of design and make the inferences accordingly. As I said we have plenty of examples to draw from.

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**Author:** ![T.j\_Runyon](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/t.j_runyon/32/9662_2.png) [@T.j\_Runyon](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/T.j_Runyon)\
**Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 9:24pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/missing-the-point-on-ewert/799/7 "2018-07-24T21:24:10Z")

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You’re missing the point. You have plenty of examples from Humans. But you have no reason at all to think that this designing intelligience has the same Pyschology as us and would do things the way we do.

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**Author:** ![JoeG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dc4da7/32.png) [@JoeG](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/JoeG)\
**Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 9:24pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/missing-the-point-on-ewert/799/8 "2018-07-24T21:24:19Z")

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I read the link. There isn’t anything that demonstrates a mechanism capable of producing the anatomical and physiological changes required.

You need something more than survival of the fittest. The fittest prokaryotes are still prokaryotes. The fittest chimps are still chimps. The fittest grey squirrels are still grey squirrels.

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**Author:** ![JoeG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dc4da7/32.png) [@JoeG](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/JoeG)\
**Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 9:26pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/missing-the-point-on-ewert/799/9 "2018-07-24T21:26:08Z")

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We use the knowledge that we have. We base our inferences on our knowledge of cause and effect relationships. Then we apply that knowledge where we are trying to figure out how X (whatever is being investigated) came to be the way it is.

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**Author:** ![T.j\_Runyon](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/t.j_runyon/32/9662_2.png) [@T.j\_Runyon](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/T.j_Runyon)\
**Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 9:27pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/missing-the-point-on-ewert/799/10 "2018-07-24T21:27:09Z")

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And in this case our knowledge is totally insufficient to make these types of inferences.

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**Author:** ![JoeG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dc4da7/32.png) [@JoeG](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/JoeG)\
**Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 9:28pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/missing-the-point-on-ewert/799/11 "2018-07-24T21:28:33Z")

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You need a mechanism before you know what the pattern is. You need a mechanism capable of producing the changes required or your reading of the pattern is unfounded.

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**Author:** ![JoeG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dc4da7/32.png) [@JoeG](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/JoeG)\
**Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 9:29pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/missing-the-point-on-ewert/799/12 "2018-07-24T21:29:13Z")

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In what case?

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**Author:** ![JoeG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dc4da7/32.png) [@JoeG](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/JoeG)\
**Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 9:36pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/missing-the-point-on-ewert/799/13 "2018-07-24T21:36:17Z")

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We have sequenced both the chimp and human genomes. No one has been able to link the genetic differences to the anatomical and physiological differences.

And if the genetic difference is really less than 2% then either something is wrong with our scientists or there isn’t any such link to be made. And if there isn’t any such link to be made then someone needs to propose and test a mechanism capable of producing the anatomical and physiological differences. Survival of the fittest is insufficient.

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**Author:** ![swamidass](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/swamidass/32/3_2.png) [@swamidass](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/swamidass)\
**Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 9:36pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/missing-the-point-on-ewert/799/14 "2018-07-24T21:36:33Z")

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Chill out guys. Give me some time and I’ll help settle this.

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**Author:** ![JoeG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dc4da7/32.png) [@JoeG](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/JoeG)\
**Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 9:38pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/missing-the-point-on-ewert/799/16 "2018-07-24T21:38:30Z")

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We are just breaking ground and stating our position- no problems

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**Author:** ![swamidass](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/swamidass/32/3_2.png) [@swamidass](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/swamidass)\
**Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 9:46pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/missing-the-point-on-ewert/799/17 "2018-07-24T21:46:00Z")

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**Author:** ![swamidass](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/swamidass/32/3_2.png) [@swamidass](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/swamidass)\
**Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 9:46pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/missing-the-point-on-ewert/799/18 "2018-07-24T21:46:14Z")

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You both should be able to see this now. Let’s do a reset. I’ll answer in a moment.

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**Author:** ![swamidass](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/swamidass/32/3_2.png) [@swamidass](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/swamidass)\
**Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 10:04pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/missing-the-point-on-ewert/799/19 "2018-07-24T22:04:24Z")

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**Author:** ![JoeG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dc4da7/32.png) [@JoeG](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/JoeG)\
**Post date:** [July 26, 2018, 7:51pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/missing-the-point-on-ewert/799/20 "2018-07-26T19:51:59Z")

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How can that be? It doesn’t make any sense that then evidence is independent of any mechanism especially given the mechanism determines the pattern. And until you have some way to test your claim- about gene regulation being the difference- you don’t have any science to support your claim.

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**Author:** ![swamidass](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/swamidass/32/3_2.png) [@swamidass](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/swamidass)\
**Post date:** [July 26, 2018, 7:53pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/missing-the-point-on-ewert/799/21 "2018-07-26T19:53:47Z")

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> [@Uncommon or Common Descent?](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/uncommon-or-common-descent/776/35):
>
> And until you have some way to test your claim- about gene regulation being the difference- **you don’t have any science to support your claim.**

@JoeG watch it. You are starting to cross a line here. He does have evidence. You are just ignorant of it. Ask him to explain the evidence to you. Do not declare you ignorance as an argument like that.

[Next page](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/missing-the-point-on-ewert/799.md?page=2)