# Of Apes and Artificial Minds: What Does it Mean to be Human?

**URL:** <https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/of-apes-and-artificial-minds-what-does-it-mean-to-be-human/1742>\
**Category:** Public Square\
**Tags:** Science, Communication, Society\
**Created:** [September 20, 2018, 6:51pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/of-apes-and-artificial-minds-what-does-it-mean-to-be-human/1742 "2018-09-20T18:51:47Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 14\
**Page:** 1

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![swamidass](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/swamidass/32/3_2.png) [@swamidass](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/swamidass)\
**Post date:** [September 20, 2018, 6:51pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/of-apes-and-artificial-minds-what-does-it-mean-to-be-human/1742/1 "2018-09-20T18:51:47Z")

</div>

This coming October I will be giving an invited lecture at Hong Kong University at the Faith and Science Collaborative Research Forum ([http://faithandscience.hku.hk](http://faithandscience.hku.hk)). There will be satellite talks on my scientific work, and also on the Genealogical Adam with @Andrew_Loke.

> **Of Apes and Artificial Minds: What Does it Mean to be Human?**
> 
> One of the grand questions of all great art, literature, and philosophy: what does it meant to be human? This is a central question in science and also in theology. These two views of the world seem to present contrasting pictures. Are we similar with the other animals, or are we different? Are we exceptional creatures or rather unremarkable? Scientists teach we are just like the other animals, with 98% similar to chimpanzees. Theologians teach we are of the Image of God. A full telling of both, however, reveals the paradox of the human condition. Theologians teach that we were made with the “breadth of God,” but we are also “of the dust.” Scientists teach that we are genetically modified apes, but we are also more than just apes. Far from a settled question, new challenges are arising with artificial intelligence. Someday, the paradox of exceptionality might extend to the artificial minds that we ourselves create. Facing the hope and risks of new technology, both science and theology call us to remember our origins as we contemplate the future. For better and for worse, we have been reshaping ourselves and our world for millennium. In a changing world of technological world, the ancient questions are just as relevant now as they ever were.

[![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/peacefulscience/original/3X/8/c/8c4f786255878a649eaa682f5e17e086bfdc5a0d.jpeg "Of Apes and Artificial Minds: What Does It Mean To Be Human? - Dr. Joshua Swamidass") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5Q5LSkZomw)

This talk will more coherently develop many of the ideas I’ve put out in Veritas Forums in the past ([Veritas Forums the Week Dad Died (January 2018)](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/veritas-forums-the-week-dad-died-january-2018/77)). In particular, I encourage the curious to look at this article, which is central to the story I’m putting forward here.

> **[More Than Just Apes](https://peacefulscience.org/articles/more-than-apes/)**
>
> Scientifically speaking, humans appear to be genetically-modified apes. But are we just apes? Or are we more? Follow the conversation with Dr. Ajit Varki.

This is a significant talk for many reasons. China is rising in the science, and might even outpace the United States this year in funding for research. For all our focus on the North American context, the asian scientific world is rising.

> **[China increasingly challenges American dominance of science](https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/china-challenges-american-dominance-of-science/2018/06/03/c1e0cfe4-48d5-11e8-827e-190efaf1f1ee_story.html)**
>
> “China is the best place in the world to start your own laboratory,” said one researcher who left Yale for Beijing.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![swamidass](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/swamidass/32/3_2.png) [@swamidass](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/swamidass)\
**Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 10:04pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/of-apes-and-artificial-minds-what-does-it-mean-to-be-human/1742/4 "2018-10-24T22:04:21Z")

</div>

Giving this talk on Monday at HKU. @Rneely, this might draw some of the same crowd, but is more solidly in my pocket.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![system](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/peacefulscience/original/2X/6/6b7bf72453a5c60b0919b6b89a27dc18bc52382c.png) [@system](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/system)\
**Post date:** [November 28, 2018, 1:36am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/of-apes-and-artificial-minds-what-does-it-mean-to-be-human/1742/9 "2018-11-28T01:36:32Z")

</div>



---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![swamidass](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/swamidass/32/3_2.png) [@swamidass](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/swamidass)\
**Post date:** [December 3, 2018, 3:45am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/of-apes-and-artificial-minds-what-does-it-mean-to-be-human/1742/10 "2018-12-03T03:45:25Z")

</div>

Here is the poster of the event. Pretty cool I must say. I’m looking forward to posting the video when it becomes available. The introduction by Dr. Chau was priceless.

 ![poster_swamadiss-600x848](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/peacefulscience/original/2X/a/a368ff76ffe0f6b2443127dc3f4658cd62455146.jpeg)

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Argon](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/argon/32/3896_2.png) [@Argon](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/Argon)\
**Post date:** [December 3, 2018, 1:56pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/of-apes-and-artificial-minds-what-does-it-mean-to-be-human/1742/12 "2018-12-03T13:56:10Z")

</div>

That’s the character, Winston, from the Overwatch video game…

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Dan\_Eastwood](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/dan_eastwood/32/2368_2.png) [@Dan\_Eastwood](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/Dan_Eastwood)\
**Post date:** [December 3, 2018, 2:09pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/of-apes-and-artificial-minds-what-does-it-mean-to-be-human/1742/13 "2018-12-03T14:09:44Z")

</div>

[Grodd?](http://Grodd?) 🙂

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![swamidass](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/swamidass/32/3_2.png) [@swamidass](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/swamidass)\
**Post date:** [December 11, 2018, 6:27am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/of-apes-and-artificial-minds-what-does-it-mean-to-be-human/1742/15 "2018-12-11T06:27:28Z")

</div>

I’ve just added the video to the main post. I’m curious to hear the forums response. Thanks again @rcohlers for having me out to visit. Thank you too @Andrew_Loke for doing an event with me too.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![swamidass](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/swamidass/32/3_2.png) [@swamidass](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/swamidass)\
**Post date:** [December 11, 2018, 6:27am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/of-apes-and-artificial-minds-what-does-it-mean-to-be-human/1742/16 "2018-12-11T06:27:39Z")

</div>



---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Andrew\_Loke](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/andrew_loke/32/8196_2.png) [@Andrew\_Loke](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/Andrew_Loke)\
**Post date:** [December 11, 2018, 9:48am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/of-apes-and-artificial-minds-what-does-it-mean-to-be-human/1742/17 "2018-12-11T09:48:32Z")

</div>

Thank you too Josh it was really great to have you!

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![system](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/peacefulscience/original/2X/6/6b7bf72453a5c60b0919b6b89a27dc18bc52382c.png) [@system](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/system)\
**Post date:** [January 2, 2019, 6:38am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/of-apes-and-artificial-minds-what-does-it-mean-to-be-human/1742/18 "2019-01-02T06:38:52Z")

</div>



---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![rcohlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a3d4f5/32.png) [@rcohlers](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/rcohlers)\
**Post date:** [January 11, 2019, 9:15am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/of-apes-and-artificial-minds-what-does-it-mean-to-be-human/1742/19 "2019-01-11T09:15:11Z")

</div>

It was a great trip! Very productive and well received. I hope we will be able to have you back in Hong Kong again.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![system](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/peacefulscience/original/2X/6/6b7bf72453a5c60b0919b6b89a27dc18bc52382c.png) [@system](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/system)\
**Post date:** [September 14, 2019, 3:57pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/of-apes-and-artificial-minds-what-does-it-mean-to-be-human/1742/28 "2019-09-14T15:57:10Z")

</div>



---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Jordan](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/jordan/32/756_2.png) [@Jordan](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/Jordan)\
**Post date:** [October 4, 2019, 4:02pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/of-apes-and-artificial-minds-what-does-it-mean-to-be-human/1742/29 "2019-10-04T16:02:37Z")

</div>

@swamidass, that was a very good talk and you handled the questions quite well.

One of the things that’s been on my mind is how we can make connections between the “big questions”, which can seem so philosophical and maybe too big to really consider, and the pressing practical concerns of people’s lives. You’ll occasionally hear critiques of theology and philosophy that go something like “we’re too busy trying to solve famine and disease to worry about all that navel gazing”. What I like about what you’re doing and what we do better, I think, than most at Peaceful Science is to blend and interweave the big questions with some of the practical “so what does that mean for me?” concerns. That you are using ancestry, art, and AI as your focus points and not something like “methodological naturalism”, “history of the dialogue between science and Christian faith”, and “modes of public discourse” makes it so much more approachable by those outside the debate. It’s not that those more philosophical things aren’t there, they just aren’t the entry point into the conversation.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![system](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/peacefulscience/original/2X/6/6b7bf72453a5c60b0919b6b89a27dc18bc52382c.png) [@system](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/system)\
**Post date:** [November 2, 2019, 10:25pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/of-apes-and-artificial-minds-what-does-it-mean-to-be-human/1742/30 "2019-11-02T22:25:13Z")

</div>