I’m pretty sure that @patrick is not going to be motivated by that. Let’s give him some space.
That is great common ground. I’ll take it. If you can focus on that, you can do some real good here. I appreciate your help engaging @scd, for example. I just do not have the time to manage questions from him. If you can keep your objections to religion separate from the science, you could make some real headway with him.
What are your thoughts on Martin Luther King Jr? He writes:
But America, as I look at you from afar, I wonder whether your moral and spiritual progress has been commensurate with your scientific progress. It seems to me that your moral progress lags behind your scientific progress.
Essay: "Grieve the Segregation of Science" by S. Joshua Swamidass
I do not know how scientific progress helps us deal with the injustice of our world. Science can neither see nor end injustice. It cannot even tell us that the segregation of St Louis, where I live is wrong. I am in a totally secular environment, governed by science, but scientists here are looking for things outside science to deal with injustice.
It seems that MLK was on to something. A scientifically advanced society is not necessarily a just society. In our case, scientific advances have not made us more just.
It seems that you have had very negative experiences with religion. I have had similar negative experiences. @Patrick, I’m sorry for that, even though I had no personal role in what you did. I hope you are able to find healing.
We need productive and positive voices that can speak with greater authority than science to deal with some of the most pressing challenges we face in our fractured society. We need people who can speak with the same authority as MLK, and that authority does not come from science.