@Agauger Why would anyone want to stay part of such a corrupt institution?
Here’s an original article.
If your house is a filthy mess, do you burn it down or do you clean it up?
Let Federal Prosecutors clean up the mess. I am talking about why would good moral Catholics remain in a 2000 year old global corrupt institution. I am not talking about giving up Catholicism, just quitting the corrupt institution. In other words, stay Catholic but forego the envelopes. Let the corrupt Catholic Church go bankrupt. Sell the assets to pay restitution to victims. Catholics can easily go over to any of the hundreds of mostly empty Protestant Churches all around town and let women celebrate the Mass, let Catholics elect a woman Pope.
Catholicism and the RCC are one in the same for those in that church, at least from my understanding. Moving from the RCC to something like Eastern Orthodox, Anglicanism, or mainline Protestantism is a big, big change.
There’s also Old Catholic Church. At least in Europe.
They don’t accept Papal infallibility though.
Honestly, other institutions are sometimes no better. Protestants have sex scandals, Eastern Orthodox do, I’m sure Orthodox and Conservative Jews have them…we live a in a fallen, broken world.
Catholics are just in the limelight more.
I often wonder how much better off the Catholic Church might be, if they had deferred to secular authority to deal with these criminal matters rather than trying to cover it up?
Much, much, better off if you ask me.
Not only for the RCC, but a lot of the abuse might have been prevented. I’m betting that there are at least a couple of people who entered clergy because they were hoping they would be protected by the church if they were caught.
I remember reading, one of the first people to do a report on the abuse in the church was Matt Donahue (I might be mistaken about the name but I’m pretty sure it’s Donahue), a Catholic. Immediately after he did that, he was called by a priest who reprimanded him for it. Those were the 80’s, it was still considered a sin to talk bad about a Catholic Church, and I’m wondering, did that help all those priests to cover up the abuse?
Edit: It’s Phil Donahue.
@swamidass I flagged this post, not in defense or support of the story that was posted, but because I really don’t see how this is appropriate for this forum. Every time I see something like this posted here it just really makes me not want to return. Sorry, just being honest, and perhaps it’s just me.
I agree it is off topic from our main focus. @patrick posts these sometime and I’ve allowed it because there are important issues taking place here, to which people want to know how Christians respond.
This is not just a problem with the Catholic Church to be clear. A basic question all of us face is how to be good in a fallen world. @patrick has also posted about similar problems amoung atheists. Certainly Protestant church have had problems too. I’m not sure prohibiting discussion about this accomplishes much. At the moment, threads like this are not too common.
As for me, I am a Christian because I encountered Jesus and found him to be good. He is worth putting up with the broken mistakes of the Church.
@purposenation You don’t think this is appropriate for this forum? Why not? Isn’t it current news about an issue that needs to be brought out and discussed in open forum? We live in a diverse fracture society where power is concentrated and intolerance and injustice is all around us. Why not discuss?
Are you Catholic? Even though I don’t consider myself Catholic anymore, most people I know are Catholic. They are as outraged as everyone on the scope and breath of the issue. Don’t you think that a forum like this can discuss and add value to solving problems of intolerance, injustice and inequality?
I sincerely would like to hear your thoughts on why we shouldn’t talk about items like this?
@swamidass of course it’s your call to draw the line where you see fit. However, even if it was a post about a leader of the “new athiest” movement directly caught in a sex scandal, it still would be off-topic for the purpose of this forum IMO.
If it was an isolated incident, maybe one post like this could slide. But also seems to me that one of @Patrick 's main (and self-admitted?) goals in this forum is to convert Christians to atheism. Sorry, that’s not what I come here to see. I don’t want to engage in these attacks… not at all.
And if I wanted to see examples of the fallen world or hear atheists’ attacks on all about the problems they see with Christianity, LOTS of other forums for that including just about every major news outlet. IMHO, this post adds zero value to a peaceful discussion about faith/science issues, it only distracts from it
But it sounds like I’m alone in this view based on the lack of folks coming to my defense. =p
Well, let’s keep it an open point. I think we need to do a forum redesign soon. We plan to do so. Perhaps there will be new rules then. @purposenation, don’t give up on us yet!
Not true. I really couldn’t care less if you stay a Christian or not. It is none of my business what your beliefs are. What I am interested in is how society moves forward in a rapidly secularizing nation with deep divisions. And I totally disagree that we live in “a fallen world” , whatever that means. It is 2019, we live in a technological world that billions can live healthy, happy productive and meaningful lives in their 90’s. How do we live together to make the world better for all of us and our children and our grandchildren?
@purposenation Want to discuss this one?