"Reconciling" science and theism. A perspective from a non scientist

We have already defined material as belonging to the confines of this universe – time and space, matter and physical energy. Material does not create itself.

Yes, there could be other material universes, but neither did they create themselves.

Then you missed. I did not say “it is unknowable”. I said only that “I suspect it is unknowable.”

(That’s a Christian satire site, in case you’re not familiar with it. It’s a Christian satire site even if you are familiar with it. :slightly_smiling_face:)

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You missed my not missing. :slightly_smiling_face: I didn’t say you said it was unknowable. What I said was saying it was unknowable was a statement of faith.

You don’t get to define the problem away. Why couldn’t there be mass and energy that interacted in such a way to produce a new universe? There are some who think black holes create new universes, and there are others who subscribe to M theory which has membranes that interact to create new universes.

Clouds don’t form from previous clouds, yet we don’t need to invoke an immaterial deity to explain how they form.

That analogy wasn’t even a three-legged horse. Saying it had two legs is generous. :slightly_smiling_face:

What you actually said, was:

You’re taking it out of context. What I said was

No, you are. For you are now insisting that the context includes something that you said considerably later.

Decent folk don’t know about that site. :slight_smile:

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Whatever. I never said nor implied that it took faith to say “I don’t know.”

. . . :slightly_smiling_face:

There are some good ones, though.

:stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

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How? Do we have any way of knowing what our universe exploded out of? Even if it was somehow “immaterial”, how would we know the character of that immateriality? There’s no reality in your “evidence”. Denying it is the only choice.

Big bang cosmology is actually a misleading label. Our universe did not explode – there was nothing to explode.

Denying it as evidence of the existence of an immaterial Creator is a bad choice. Big bang cosmology is a flashing neon arrow pointing to him and many atheists who have become Christians have built on that fact.

It seems to me “exploded” is a reasonable description of known events. How do you know there was “nothing”?

Just empty words and bald assertions. It’s sad one would have to resort to this kind of thing. It suggests insecurity.

I believe Stephen Hawking?

I know where true security lies. Do you know what the most frequent mandate in the Bible is?

What I find remarkable at this exchange is that @John_Dalton wrote:

Yet, rather than explaining more about Jesus, we see a prolonged exchange that amounts to an appeal to Steven Hawking. I think Christians can really miss the elephant in the room.

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I don’t think he missed the elephant in the room:

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Oh? What did he say?

In sincerity, why should I care?

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