# Stephen C. Meyer | The Ben Shapiro Show Sunday

**URL:** <https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/stephen-c-meyer-the-ben-shapiro-show-sunday/5521>\
**Category:** Side Conversation\
**Tags:** Science, Design\
**Created:** [March 25, 2019, 2:20am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/stephen-c-meyer-the-ben-shapiro-show-sunday/5521 "2019-03-25T02:20:46Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![Edgar\_Tamarian](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/edgar_tamarian/32/3316_2.png) [@Edgar\_Tamarian](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/Edgar_Tamarian)\
**Post date:** [March 25, 2019, 2:20am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/stephen-c-meyer-the-ben-shapiro-show-sunday/5521/1 "2019-03-25T02:20:47Z")

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I think this interview is going to be game-changer for Intelligent Design Theory in the era of so-called ‘‘Intellectual Dark Web’’.

You can mislead the misinformed public in 2005 that some kind of federal Judge is responsible for making the case whether a theory is scientific or not. You can mislead the public by equating Intelligent Design with creationism to make ID in the eyes of public less credible, less scientific. Yes, you succeed to mislead the public in 2005 when there was no Youtube channel when the public mostly relied on TV and newspapers.

But let’s see whether you will succeed again when correct information about Intelligen design will reach millions of people in the coming weeks.

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**Author:** ![swamidass](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/swamidass/32/3_2.png) [@swamidass](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/swamidass)\
**Post date:** [March 25, 2019, 2:22am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/stephen-c-meyer-the-ben-shapiro-show-sunday/5521/2 "2019-03-25T02:22:18Z")

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I’m pretty sure everyone has already has already heard of ID. It’s old news, right?

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**Author:** ![Edgar\_Tamarian](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/edgar_tamarian/32/3316_2.png) [@Edgar\_Tamarian](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/Edgar_Tamarian)\
**Post date:** [March 25, 2019, 2:25am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/stephen-c-meyer-the-ben-shapiro-show-sunday/5521/3 "2019-03-25T02:25:23Z")

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not everyone, those who heard of, just false information…just after this intervew people started to buy Darwin’s Doubt, i myself read comments, after wathching they just ordered the book.

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**Author:** ![stlyankeefan](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/stlyankeefan/32/3773_2.png) [@stlyankeefan](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/stlyankeefan)\
**Post date:** [March 25, 2019, 2:59am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/stephen-c-meyer-the-ben-shapiro-show-sunday/5521/4 "2019-03-25T02:59:33Z")

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YouTube was around in 2005.

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**Author:** ![Mercer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Mercer](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/Mercer)\
**Post date:** [March 25, 2019, 3:21am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/stephen-c-meyer-the-ben-shapiro-show-sunday/5521/5 "2019-03-25T03:21:08Z")

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> [@Edgar\_Tamarian](#):
>
> I think this interview is going to be game-changer for Intelligent Design Theory in the era of so-called ‘‘Intellectual Dark Web’’.

Yeah, YouTube videos have revolutionized science so many times in the past…

Edgar, why doesn’t anyone in the ID movement have an ID hypothesis that makes testable predictions?

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**Author:** ![John\_Harshman](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/john_harshman/32/1121_2.png) [@John\_Harshman](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/John_Harshman)\
**Post date:** [March 25, 2019, 3:32am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/stephen-c-meyer-the-ben-shapiro-show-sunday/5521/6 "2019-03-25T03:32:25Z")

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> [@Edgar\_Tamarian](#):
>
> You can mislead the public by equating Intelligent Design with creationism to make ID in the eyes of public less credible, less scientific.

Cough•cdesign proponentsists•cough.

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**Author:** ![T.j\_Runyon](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/t.j_runyon/32/9662_2.png) [@T.j\_Runyon](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/T.j_Runyon)\
**Post date:** [March 25, 2019, 3:40am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/stephen-c-meyer-the-ben-shapiro-show-sunday/5521/7 "2019-03-25T03:40:42Z")

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> [@Edgar\_Tamarian](#):
>
> But let’s see whether you will succeed again when correct information about Intelligen design will reach millions of people in the coming weeks.

Millions of people with no science education. Coo coo coo cool beans.

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**Author:** ![T.j\_Runyon](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/t.j_runyon/32/9662_2.png) [@T.j\_Runyon](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/T.j_Runyon)\
**Post date:** [March 25, 2019, 3:43am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/stephen-c-meyer-the-ben-shapiro-show-sunday/5521/8 "2019-03-25T03:43:19Z")

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Don’t think it’s the public who needs convincing. More like the scientific community. And most ppl who listen to Shapiro more than likely already adopt some type of creationism. Who cares? This interview may make billy bob down the road adopt ID. Oh nooooo

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**Author:** ![Timothy\_Horton](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/timothy_horton/32/9410_2.png) [@Timothy\_Horton](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/Timothy_Horton)\
**Post date:** [March 25, 2019, 3:50am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/stephen-c-meyer-the-ben-shapiro-show-sunday/5521/9 "2019-03-25T03:50:51Z")

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> [@Edgar\_Tamarian](#):
>
> You can mislead the misinformed public in 2005 that some kind of federal Judge is responsible for making the case whether a theory is scientific or not. You can mislead the public by equating Intelligent Design with creationism to make ID in the eyes of public less credible, less scientific. Yes, you succeed to mislead the public in 2005 when there was no Youtube channel when the public mostly relied on TV and newspapers.

Or we can point out Team ID has produced **not a single solitary piece of positive evidence** in the over 20 years it has been in existence. Lots of hot air, lots of propaganda books filled with cherry picked data, misrepresentations, and outright lies concerning actual evolutionary biology, even a few propaganda movies. But a big fat **ZERO** in positive supporting evidence.

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**Author:** ![Lou](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/lou/32/3650_2.png) [@Lou](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/Lou)\
**Post date:** [March 25, 2019, 7:25am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/stephen-c-meyer-the-ben-shapiro-show-sunday/5521/10 "2019-03-25T07:25:18Z")

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@Edgar_Tamarian,

I’ve been following ID for the past decade or so. I am just curious, how do you think Stephen Meyer appearing on Ben Shapiro Show is going to be a “game-changer” for ID? Can you give details on how this might be a game changer? You also mention the word ‘Scientific’ in regards to a Judge and the general public. But if ID is ‘Scientific’, wouldn’t ID want to make sure whatever ‘Scientific’ position they take or write about can be supported with solid, honest ‘Scientific’ research? verses appealing to victimization from a court Judgment and the general public?

Just so you know I’m on your side but am disappointed by the stuff coming from EN and other ID venues, not to mention Behe’s recent book.

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**Author:** ![Edgar\_Tamarian](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/edgar_tamarian/32/3316_2.png) [@Edgar\_Tamarian](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/Edgar_Tamarian)\
**Post date:** [March 25, 2019, 7:54am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/stephen-c-meyer-the-ben-shapiro-show-sunday/5521/11 "2019-03-25T07:54:28Z")

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@Lou it is going to be game-changer” for ID because ID never reached to the wider audience, seems strange, but only I can observe that fact, I am not part of American culture, so from outside I have a broad view than anyone inside American culture sees.

Science is operating on funding, Governmental funding, if you take from ID the opportunity to be funded, to access university research labs, grants and then you are the one who blames ID to making ‘Scientific’ research. **I have bad news for you,** even without government funding, even without all research facilities that general universities provide Intelligent design made research by operating at least 2 research labs [Biologic Institute](http://www.biologicinstitute.org/) and [Evolutionary Informatics Lab](https://www.evoinfo.org/), they produced numerous peer-reviewed scientific papers, even published in mainstream academic journals. Behe’s recent book is based on a peer-reviewed paper [Experimental evolution, loss-of-function mutations, and “the first rule of adaptive evolution”](https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/656902?journalCode=qrb)

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**Author:** ![Edgar\_Tamarian](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/edgar_tamarian/32/3316_2.png) [@Edgar\_Tamarian](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/Edgar_Tamarian)\
**Post date:** [March 25, 2019, 8:03am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/stephen-c-meyer-the-ben-shapiro-show-sunday/5521/12 "2019-03-25T08:03:20Z")

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> [@Mercer](#):
>
> Edgar, why doesn’t anyone in the ID movement have an ID hypothesis that makes testable predictions?

**A Dozen ID-Inspired Predictions made by in the book Signatutre in The cell back in 2009**

> • No undirected process will demonstrate the capacity to generate 500 bits of  
> new information starting from a nonbiological source.  
> • Informational accounting will reveal that sources of active information are  
> responsible for putatively successful computer-based evolutionary simulations.  
> • Future experiments will continue to show that RNA catalysts lack the  
> capacities necessary to render the RNA-world scenario plausible.  
> • Informational accounting will reveal that any improvements in replicase  
> function in ribozymes are the result of active information supplied by ribozyme  
> engineers.  
> • Investigation of the logic of regulatory and information-processing systems in  
> cells will reveal the use of design strategies and logic that mirrors (though  
> possibly exceeds in complexity) those used in systems designed by engineers.  
> Cell biologists will find regulatory systems that function in accord with a logic  
> that can be expressed as an algorithm.  
> • Sophisticated imaging techniques will reveal nanomachines (turbines) in  
> centrioles that play a role in cell division. Other evidence will show that  
> malfunctions in the regulation of these machines are responsible for  
> chromosomal damage.  
> • If intelligent design played a role in the origin of life, but not subsequently,  
> prokaryotic cells should carry amounts of genetic information that exceed their  
> own needs or retain vestiges of having done so, and molecular biology should  
> provide evidence of information-rich structures that exceed the causal powers of  
> chance, necessity, or the combination of the two.  
> • If a designing intelligence acted discretely in the history of life, the various  
> subdisciplines of biology should show evidence of polyphyly.  
> • The fossil record, in particular, should show evidence of discrete infusions of  
> information into the biosphere at episodic intervals as well as a top-down, rather  
> than bottom-up, pattern of appearance of new fossil forms.  
> • If an intelligent (and benevolent) agent designed life, then studies of putatively  
> bad designs in life—such as the vertebrate retina and virulent bacteria—should  
> reveal either (a) reasons for the designs that show a hidden functional logic or  
> (b) evidence of decay of originally good designs.  
> • If the flagellar motor was intelligently designed and the type-3 secretory  
> system devolved from it, the genes that code for the bacterial flagellar motor  
> should be older than those that code for the proteins in the T3SS, and not the  
> reverse. Alternatively, if the T3SS and the flagellar motor arose by design  
> independently, T3SS should have unique (nonhomologous) genes that are not  
> present in the genome for the flagellar motor.  
> • The functional sequences of amino acids within amino acid–sequence space  
> should be extremely rare rather than common.

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**Author:** ![Lou](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/lou/32/3650_2.png) [@Lou](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/Lou)\
**Post date:** [March 25, 2019, 8:30am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/stephen-c-meyer-the-ben-shapiro-show-sunday/5521/13 "2019-03-25T08:30:56Z")

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I understand what you’re saying about US federal funding for Scientific research. But how can you explain this on Behe’s recent book \> ([Comments on McLatchie and Swamidass](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/comments-on-mclatchie-and-swamidass/5409/50)

Nathan Lents and Arthur Hunt do a very good job in pointing out the cherry picking going on with Behe in his new book. ID cannot afford to make these mistakes unless you can prove their (Hunt and Lents) observations are untrue?

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**Author:** ![evograd](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/evograd/32/1233_2.png) [@evograd](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/evograd)\
**Post date:** [March 25, 2019, 8:56am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/stephen-c-meyer-the-ben-shapiro-show-sunday/5521/14 "2019-03-25T08:56:35Z")

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> [@Edgar\_Tamarian](#):
>
> even without all research facilities that general universities provide Intelligent design made research by operating at least 2 research labs [Biologic Institute](http://www.biologicinstitute.org/) and [Evolutionary Informatics Lab](https://www.evoinfo.org/), they produced numerous peer-reviewed scientific papers, even published in mainstream academic journals.

I’d just like to point out that if you do a search for “biologic institute” in pubmed, you find that only 4 papers have been published in “mainstream” academic journals by people at this “institute”, and only 2 of them are even tangentially related to ID.

> **[Stylus: A System for Evolutionary Experimentation Based on a Protein/Proteome...](https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0002246)**
>
> The study of protein evolution is complicated by the vast size of protein sequence space, the huge number of possible protein folds, and the extraordinary complexity of the causal relationships between protein sequence, structure, and function. Much...

> **[DNA Codes and Information: Formal Structures and Relational Causes - Acta...](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10441-008-9049-6)**
>
> Recently the terms “codes” and “information” as used in the context of molecular biology have been the subject of much discussion. Here I propose that a variety of structural realism can assist us in rethinking the concepts of DNA codes and...

The other 2 were published by Günter Bechly, describing new fossil species of dragonflies.

So, 2 ID-related publications. In 14 years. Not very impressive. These 2 papers have also only been cited about 3 times in total by other papers in “mainstream academic journals” in the combined 22 years that have elapsed since they were published.

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**Author:** ![swamidass](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/swamidass/32/3_2.png) [@swamidass](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/swamidass)\
**Post date:** [March 25, 2019, 8:59am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/stephen-c-meyer-the-ben-shapiro-show-sunday/5521/15 "2019-03-25T08:59:01Z")

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This has been pointed out before, but YECs are far more productive in doing peer reviewed research than ID. Answers Research Journal is publishing quite a few articles.

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**Author:** ![swamidass](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/swamidass/32/3_2.png) [@swamidass](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/swamidass)\
**Post date:** [March 25, 2019, 9:03am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/stephen-c-meyer-the-ben-shapiro-show-sunday/5521/16 "2019-03-25T09:03:49Z")

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> [@Edgar\_Tamarian](#):
>
> @Lou it is going to be game-changer” for ID because ID never reached to the wider audience, seems strange, but only I can observe that fact, I am not part of American culture, so from outside I have a broad view than anyone inside American culture sees.

So it was not broad exposure when George W Bush, a sitting president, voiced his support back in 2004 or 2005?

Ben Shapiro is an interesting character, but he also does not have that large an audience. I suggest we give it a few months and look at google trends to see if there is a measurable uptick. Perhaps I’ll be proven wrong, but I hypothesize nothing will be observable, except the long term trend of ID, which (not sure) might be steadily downward.

Want to put your instinct to the test @Edgar_Tamarian?

If Pence or Trump says something about ID, well that might be different. Not likely.

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**Author:** ![evograd](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/evograd/32/1233_2.png) [@evograd](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/evograd)\
**Post date:** [March 25, 2019, 9:03am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/stephen-c-meyer-the-ben-shapiro-show-sunday/5521/17 "2019-03-25T09:03:55Z")

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> [@swamidass](#):
>
> peer reviewed research

> [@swamidass](#):
>
> Answers Research Journal

 ![misc-jackie-chan-l](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/peacefulscience/original/2X/9/942bb11b6e9780c51110ade9de3e32d637827ca3.jpeg)

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![swamidass](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/swamidass/32/3_2.png) [@swamidass](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/swamidass)\
**Post date:** [March 25, 2019, 9:04am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/stephen-c-meyer-the-ben-shapiro-show-sunday/5521/18 "2019-03-25T09:04:53Z")

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At least they are producing work! Doesn’t comment on quality, right? 😄

Compare with BIO complexity. I think the YECs are ahead.

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**Author:** ![Intjer](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/intjer/32/2085_2.png) [@Intjer](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/Intjer)\
**Post date:** [March 25, 2019, 9:52am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/stephen-c-meyer-the-ben-shapiro-show-sunday/5521/19 "2019-03-25T09:52:07Z")

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One of my fond memories as a teenager and young adult was reading The Journal of Irreproducible Results, but I think my sense of humor was twisted long before that. Riding my bicycle to the bookstore long before Amazon existed. Fun times, in a way.

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**Author:** ![Edgar\_Tamarian](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/edgar_tamarian/32/3316_2.png) [@Edgar\_Tamarian](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/Edgar_Tamarian)\
**Post date:** [March 25, 2019, 11:29am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/stephen-c-meyer-the-ben-shapiro-show-sunday/5521/20 "2019-03-25T11:29:17Z")

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> [@Lou](#):
>
> Nathan Lents and Arthur Hunt do a very good job in pointing out the cherry picking going on with Behe in his new book. ID cannot afford to make these mistakes unless you can prove their (Hunt and Lents) observations are untrue?

If you are naive enough that you read only one side of the debate, then …but if you are open-minded to look at both sides, you will see who is trying to hide obvious results from recent research in the field

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