# Story Three: Recent Sole-Genealogical Progenitor Adam

**URL:** <https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/story-three-recent-sole-genealogical-progenitor-adam/986>\
**Category:** Peaceful Science\
**Tags:** Adam, Theology\
**Created:** [August 4, 2018, 2:38am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/story-three-recent-sole-genealogical-progenitor-adam/986 "2018-08-04T02:38:36Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 1\
**Showing post:** 34

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**Author:** ![swamidass](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/swamidass/32/3_2.png) [@swamidass](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/swamidass)\
**Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 1:50am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/story-three-recent-sole-genealogical-progenitor-adam/986/34 "2018-08-29T01:50:43Z")

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> [@TaylorS](#):
>
> Hi! Sure. I am a theology student at SEBTS and I run the young adult ministry at my church. I teach Sunday School also and they have been asking lots of apologetic questions lately.

That’s really helpful context. Thanks.

I was just at SEBTS this last April, at Ken Keathley’s invitation, and engaged with several scholars there on the Genealogical Adam. You might want to reach out some of them to discuss more too.

Now to get to your questions…

> [@TaylorS](#):
>
> So, I am wondering how the Genealogical Adam idea can answer ‘why’ God would do it this way? Why would this be necessary. I understand science does not usually answer ‘why,’ and that this is looking for a theological answer. But, has anyone considered why an Adam and Eve would need to be created de novo, separate from those outside the garden? Beyond the scope here?

First off, most of the work I’ve published so far is exclusively on the what science allows. Not much is out there on the theology. Informally, we have been exploring the question here, for example: [Does De Novo Adam in an Evolved Population Make Sense?](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/does-de-novo-adam-in-an-evolved-population-make-sense/149).

I did present a paper at the Dabar Conference ([Ken Keathley: Notes from Dabar and a Baptist's Hope](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/ken-keathley-notes-from-dabar-and-a-baptists-hope/568)), where I did discuss a theological model to make sense of this. Would you like to confidentially see the Dabar paper I presented? That might begin to answer some of your questions.

Also, @jongarvey has been doing work building up the theology too, and has several excellent posts on his blog: [http://potiphar.jongarvey.co.uk/category/genealogical-adam/](http://potiphar.jongarvey.co.uk/category/genealogical-adam/). Of note, he draws heavily on Sailhammer, who was an exegete at SEBTS. You might appreciate his work. This thread has some the key posts from this series: [The Genealogical Adam as Israel](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/the-genealogical-adam-as-israel/24). @deuteroKJ has been a regular here too, and we are considering putting together a ETS session for 2019.

## A question of “why” or “coherence”?

You asked “why” God would do it this way. I think a better way to approach the question might be “is this theologically coherent?” The reason why is that we already know God does very surprising things, such as give His only Son to suffer and die for us. Why did He doe it this way? Difficulty answering this question is unavoidable. The difficulty however is just because God’s ways are not our ways. There is thing called the “Scandal of Particularity” which brings this to the forefront too (perhaps @Philosurfer can elaborate) [“Why Mary?” C. S. Lewis on the Scandal of Particularity | When I Survey . . .](https://richardlfloyd.com/2009/12/17/%E2%80%9Cwhy-mary%E2%80%9D-c-s-lewis-on-the-scandal-of-particularity/). Suffice to say that God often does surprising things.

Rather than rejecting surprising things that are at first non-intuitive, a better strategy in this case is to ask if this model could be theologically coherent.

## Theological coherence

I think there is a coherent way to think about this that preserves traditional theology of Adam. The Dabar paper explains my take, and I’m building into a book right now. Ken Keathley explains:

> [@Ken Keathley: Notes from Dabar and a Baptist's Hope](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/ken-keathley-notes-from-dabar-and-a-baptists-hope/568/7):
>
> Joshua’s paper generated significant conversation at the Conference. This is because practically everyone realized that his proposal provided helpful insights, and perhaps even a helpful corrective, in several areas. He makes the important distinction between genetics and genealogy. If I’m understanding his argument correctly, he makes two points: 1) We have little or no discernible genetic evidence of most of our ancestors beyond, say, 1000 years ago. So most of our ancestors are “genetic ghosts.” And 2) if someone in the ancient world (i.e., before the time of Christ) had any children at all, then he or she probably is the direct ancestor of all.

I can summarize the basic idea here:

God creates all mankind outside the garden, and then creates Adam in different way (parallel to how Jesus enters the world in a different way) in order to support a special purpose for him. He is to function as a good and sinless ruler to invite all mankind into the death-free Garden. Then He falls, and his original purpose is distorted into original sin. **This telling has some positive qualities.** For me, it makes sense of the passage in the NT about [The Second Adam: Choosing vs. Refurbishment vs. De Novo](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/the-second-adam-choosing-vs-refurbishment-vs-de-novo/1163). It tightens the typological connection between Adam and Jesus, and also makes sense of what is happening outside the Garden in Genesis 2. Mankind outside the Garden, the way I see it, is in God’s Image too, just not fallen into transgression and original sin.

You can see some of our discussion on this here: [The Theological Significance of Descent From Adam](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/the-theological-signifance-of-descent-from-adam/1088) and [Adam and adams, not Adamites](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/adam-and-adams-not-adamites/119) and [Which Scenarios of Adam Will be Helpful?](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/which-scenarios-of-adam-will-be-helpful/109) and [Suarez and Swamidass on Original Sin](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/suarez-and-swamidass-on-original-sin/1302).

## Other ways

Of course, this is not the only way to think of this.

We had an exchange on [A Catholic Approach to the Genealogical Adam](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/a-catholic-approach-to-the-genealogical-adam/116). The first theological book on a _Genealogical Adam_ is likely going to hit print before mine, and is by @Andrew_Loke. Other theologians I expect to be writing up their own models. The question will be whether or not any of these is sufficiently coherent for the Church. I am guessing that there will be several ways to make this coherent, and it might be more defined by denominational considerations than science or Scripture. There is just an immense amount of new possibilities opening up now, so its hard to know for sure how the dust will settle.

If you are theology student, it is a great time to get in the mix. One from TEDS, I know, is about to publish an extended engagement with one of the theological questions raised by this work. If you are looking for a good topic, I’d love to hear more about your interests. There might be some interesting connection points. The way I see it, questions about human origins bring us to the grand question: What does it mean to be Human? This is a central nexus of just about everything including theology and science. We want to support the work of theologians like you as you get interested here.

So, I hope that is a helpful start @TaylorS. Let me know if you’d like to see a copy of my Dabar paper, or be a reader on the manuscript I’m working on: [Calling for Beta Readers](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/starting-my-book/455). Welcome to the conversation too. I’m looking forward to learning from you.

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