# T.J\_Runyons Evolution Rubrick

**URL:** <https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/t-j-runyons-evolution-rubrick/894>\
**Category:** Side Conversation\
**Created:** [July 30, 2018, 1:06am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/t-j-runyons-evolution-rubrick/894 "2018-07-30T01:06:23Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![T.j\_Runyon](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/t.j_runyon/32/9662_2.png) [@T.j\_Runyon](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/T.j_Runyon)\
**Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 1:06am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/t-j-runyons-evolution-rubrick/894/1 "2018-07-30T01:06:23Z")

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There is nothing that stresses me out more and keeps up at night than being unsure about things. Being undecided. This has been my situation regarding origins for the last month or so. But with the help of this forum and its members I have been able to form what I think is a coherent and reasonable position. To describe my position I think I need to define evolution. It can take multiple forms so I want to define each of them. You will see how each definition entails the previous one,

1. Evolution- a change of gene frequencies in a population over time.

There isn’t a person on earth who doubts this happens. Most people will refer to this most basic definition as microevolution. This is actually the type of evolutionary change I’m most interested in. I’m interested in human adaptability. That is how we react culturally and biologically to our environment. Here’s a good overview of some of our biological adaptations as a species: [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5154245/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5154245/)

1. Evolution- understood as the thesis of common ancestry. The process by which new species emerge as the modified descendants of pre-existing ones. It accounts for both the unity and the diversity of life.

This is what biologists are referring to when they say evolution is a fact. Its universally accepted in academia and accepted by many ID proponents and progressive creationists. I also accept it and have no real reason to doubt it. It’s also worth pointing out the truth of common ancestry is completely independent of mechanism. Too much time is wasted using perceived shortcomings of mechanisms to argue against common ancestry and using evidence for common ancestry as evidence for mechanism. It happens on this forum. Let’s be careful of that.

1. Evolution- understood as evolutionary theory. The scientific theory that explains how evolution has taken and still takes place on Earth, with reference to particular, old and current, aspects of life on Earth and to particular episodes of its history.

Now this is where the controversy is for those ID proponents and progressive creationists who accept common ancestry. They aren’t sure that modern evolutionary theory and its proposed mechanisms can explain the entirety of the grand evolutionary story. I for one think modern evolutionary theory is just fine and at this moment there is no reason to adopt intelligence as an additional explanatory mechanism within evolutionary biology. But I am completely open to this possibility and I encourage work to continue on these types of questions.

So I adhere to 1-3. But my firm commitment is to 1&2. I think this makes my position a modest and reasonable one since I am completely open to modifications to modern evolutionary biology if needed.

I don’t think I would have come to these conclusions if it wasn’t for this forum introducing me to new thoughts and ideas and history I was completely unaware of. So please keep participating and encourage others to do so.

Also, be on the lookout here soon for the story of my journey back to Christianity here on Peaceful Science. It’s proving more difficult to write than anticipated but I will have it completed soon.

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**Author:** ![swamidass](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/swamidass/32/3_2.png) [@swamidass](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/swamidass)\
**Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 1:09am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/t-j-runyons-evolution-rubrick/894/2 "2018-07-30T01:09:43Z")

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> [@T.j\_Runyon](#):
>
> Also, be on the lookout here soon for the story of my journey back to Christianity here on Peaceful Science. It’s proving more difficult to write than anticipated but I will have it completed soon.

Looking forward to it.

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**Author:** ![Guy\_Coe](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/guy_coe/32/1972_2.png) [@Guy\_Coe](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/Guy_Coe)\
**Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 1:14am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/t-j-runyons-evolution-rubrick/894/3 "2018-07-30T01:14:12Z")

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Same here. Great way to contribute meaningfully and for us to get to know you better. Cheers!

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**Author:** ![swamidass](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/swamidass/32/3_2.png) [@swamidass](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/swamidass)\
**Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 1:15am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/t-j-runyons-evolution-rubrick/894/4 "2018-07-30T01:15:12Z")

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> [@T.j\_Runyon](#):
>
> But my firm commitment is to 1&2

What do you mean by “commitment” exactly?

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**Author:** ![T.j\_Runyon](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/t.j_runyon/32/9662_2.png) [@T.j\_Runyon](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/T.j_Runyon)\
**Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 1:28am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/t-j-runyons-evolution-rubrick/894/5 "2018-07-30T01:28:44Z")

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That I’m very confident in the truth of those proposals and it would take very strong evidence for me to change my position. Here’s a silly example: I’m firmly committed to the fact that Mountain Dew is the best soft drink ever made. It would take a very special soft drink to change my mind. Candy bars? Ehhh. I’d say snickers but my feelings aren’t as strong about that.

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**Author:** ![Guy\_Coe](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/guy_coe/32/1972_2.png) [@Guy\_Coe](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/Guy_Coe)\
**Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 1:30am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/t-j-runyons-evolution-rubrick/894/6 "2018-07-30T01:30:02Z")

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Well, you ought to try a Doctor Brown’s Black Cherry Soda… ; )

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**Author:** ![swamidass](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/swamidass/32/3_2.png) [@swamidass](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/swamidass)\
**Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 2:02am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/t-j-runyons-evolution-rubrick/894/7 "2018-07-30T02:02:15Z")

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> [@T.j\_Runyon](#):
>
> I’m firmly committed to the fact that Mountain Dew is the best soft drink ever made. It would take a very special soft drink to change my mind. Candy bars? Ehhh. I’d say snickers but my feelings aren’t as strong about that

That doesn’t sound like committed. 🙂

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**Author:** ![cwhenderson](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/cwhenderson/32/72_2.png) [@cwhenderson](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/cwhenderson)\
**Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 2:30am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/t-j-runyons-evolution-rubrick/894/8 "2018-07-30T02:30:53Z")

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> [@T.j\_Runyon](#):
>
> I’m firmly committed to the fact that Mountain Dew is the best soft drink ever made.

I affirm this commitment, although I am deeply saddened that the “Livewire” version is no longer available.

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**Author:** ![T.j\_Runyon](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/t.j_runyon/32/9662_2.png) [@T.j\_Runyon](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/T.j_Runyon)\
**Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 2:32am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/t-j-runyons-evolution-rubrick/894/9 "2018-07-30T02:32:04Z")

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Dude! I actually found it in a small town in northwest Alabama in some scary gas station not long ago

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**Author:** ![Guy\_Coe](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/guy_coe/32/1972_2.png) [@Guy\_Coe](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/Guy_Coe)\
**Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 2:46am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/t-j-runyons-evolution-rubrick/894/10 "2018-07-30T02:46:44Z")

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Remember where it is… God likes to hang out there! Literally, ANYWHERE there’s a Dr. Brown’s Black Cherry Soda. They’ll be right next to their Celery flavor (not so hot).

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**Author:** ![cwhenderson](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/cwhenderson/32/72_2.png) [@cwhenderson](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/cwhenderson)\
**Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 2:58am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/t-j-runyons-evolution-rubrick/894/11 "2018-07-30T02:58:04Z")

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Guy, you’ve piqued my curiosity. I might just have to try it. TJ, I’ll just find a MAGA hat, it’ll probably keep me safe at the scary gas station!

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**Author:** ![Patrick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b2d939/32.png) [@Patrick](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/Patrick)\
**Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 3:26am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/t-j-runyons-evolution-rubrick/894/12 "2018-07-30T03:26:05Z")

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> [@T.j\_Runyon](#):
>
> my journey back to Christianity here on Peaceful Science.

What does Christianity have to do with the study of evolutionary biology or the study of life on Earth?

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**Author:** ![cwhenderson](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/cwhenderson/32/72_2.png) [@cwhenderson](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/cwhenderson)\
**Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 3:27am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/t-j-runyons-evolution-rubrick/894/13 "2018-07-30T03:27:41Z")

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> [@Patrick](#):
>
> What does Christianity have to do with the study of evolutionary biology or the study of life on Earth?

TJ can write what he wants. Wouldn’t you agree, Patrick?

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**Author:** ![T.j\_Runyon](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/t.j_runyon/32/9662_2.png) [@T.j\_Runyon](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/T.j_Runyon)\
**Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 3:27am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/t-j-runyons-evolution-rubrick/894/14 "2018-07-30T03:27:49Z")

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I didn’t claim they were related so I’m unsure why you are asking

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**Author:** ![keiths](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/keiths/32/703_2.png) [@keiths](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/keiths)\
**Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 4:05am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/t-j-runyons-evolution-rubrick/894/15 "2018-07-30T04:05:31Z")

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> [@Guy\_Coe](#):
>
> Well, you ought to try a Doctor Brown’s Black Cherry Soda… ; )

Amen! I actually have that stuff shipped to me when I can’t find it locally.

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**Author:** ![Patrick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b2d939/32.png) [@Patrick](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/Patrick)\
**Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 4:37am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/t-j-runyons-evolution-rubrick/894/16 "2018-07-30T04:37:59Z")

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> [@cwhenderson](#):
>
> TJ can write what he wants. Wouldn’t you agree, Patrick?

This is a straight forward question. Why is faith entangled with science? All of science is neutral on God. So why the forced entanglement?

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**Author:** ![gbrooks9](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/gbrooks9/32/7979_2.png) [@gbrooks9](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/gbrooks9)\
**Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 4:40am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/t-j-runyons-evolution-rubrick/894/17 "2018-07-30T04:40:46Z")

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> [@Patrick](#):
>
> This is a straight forward question. Why is faith entangled with science? All of science is neutral on God. So why the forced entanglement?

@Patrick

You are smart enough to answer this question in your own.

This is a list for comparing creationism with evolution WITHIN a Christian world view. Dont be so obtuse.

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**Author:** ![T.j\_Runyon](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/t.j_runyon/32/9662_2.png) [@T.j\_Runyon](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/T.j_Runyon)\
**Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 4:43am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/t-j-runyons-evolution-rubrick/894/18 "2018-07-30T04:43:29Z")

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Who’s entangling it? Certainly not me.

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**Author:** ![Patrick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b2d939/32.png) [@Patrick](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/Patrick)\
**Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 4:45am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/t-j-runyons-evolution-rubrick/894/19 "2018-07-30T04:45:24Z")

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> [@gbrooks9](#):
>
> You are smart enough to answer this question in your own.
> 
> This is a list for comparing creationism with evolution WITHIN a Christian world view. Dont be so obtuse.

I am not being obtuse, I am being direct. Peaceful Science is about science. Science is neutral on faith matters. How can Peaceful Science help you regarding faith issues? Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy talking with you and enjoy getting to know you.

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**Author:** ![gbrooks9](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/gbrooks9/32/7979_2.png) [@gbrooks9](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/gbrooks9)\
**Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 4:45am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/t-j-runyons-evolution-rubrick/894/20 "2018-07-30T04:45:46Z")

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> [@T.j\_Runyon](#):
>
> Who’s entangling it? Certainly not me.

@T.j_Runyon…

He is intentionally trolling… don’t get sucked in.

[Next page](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/t-j-runyons-evolution-rubrick/894.md?page=2)