The Mystery of Mung

Continuing the discussion from God Necessary For Evolution?:

This conversation is overdue @mung. Can you tell us about yourself? From what I gather:

  1. You are a Christian
  2. You affirm common descent
  3. Disagree with most (?) ID arguments
  4. Agree with a lot of ID rhetoric, such as their use of the term Darwinism
  5. Are one of the 3 skeptical zone moderators that have made a home for themselves here.

Okay then.

What did I get right or wrong about you?

Why are you a Chiristian? What was your path to this view?

What ID arguments do you agree with? What do you think are our agreements and disagreements? What is your education/profession? Why do you choose to be anonymous? Why do you care about this conversation and what value do you here at Peaceful Science?

I love the title. :slight_smile:

Some people find me hard to pin down and I think that’s just fine. I try not to be too dogmatic and to be open to changing my mind and willing to admit that there is so much that I do not know and that it’s fine to not have full certainty. That’s life.

I am a Christian. I grew up in a Christian home and grew up believing I was a Christian but God convinced me otherwise which led to a “born again” experience. If there is one thing I am dogmatic about it is that God changed my life through Christ.

I do accept common descent. I do think it provides the best explanation for the patterns we see in the distribution of shared and different characters.

I don’t see any conflict between Scripture and common descent. I have no problem if humans evolved from some other species. I don’t believe God literally formed Adam from dirt is if he molded a clay figure the way a sculptor does and then brought that clay figure to life by blowing into its nostrils.

If I question arguments for common descent it’s not because I doubt common descent it’s because I want to understand the argument and it’s strength and weaknesses.

I take the same approach to ID. The arguments need to be compelling. As far as specific ID arguments there are too many out there but if someone wants to be more specific I will do my best to say what I think. I mentioned previously an argument advanced at UD by Eric:

In medieval language this missing meaning is called function. Function cannot emerge from atoms in motion. It cannot emerge from shaking the Lego box. This claim can be proven mathematically. In information theory, function is a kind of mutual information. Mutual information is subject to the law of information non-increase, which means mutual information and thus function cannot be created by natural processes. Thus, without an organizing force, matter is functionless and void, and there is no meaning.

To me that is just so much word salad. Perhaps it’s due to my own ignorance. Such arguments are unconvincing. Generally speaking if I would not make the argument myself I don’t find it compelling.

I do agree with a certain amount of their rhetoric. For sure.

I’ve only recently been given moderator status at TSZ so I would not make too much of that.

I remain anonymous because I have had some pretty nasty things said about me on the internet and prefer to not expose my actual identity to anyone and everyone to trash. I am more than happy to share my real identity to you if you desire.

I have no college education. I am just an avid reader on multiple topics who has been engaged in debating on the internet for many years (going back to newsgroups).

I appreciate the dialogue. Thank you.


I’m pretty new here so there are discussions that have taken place in the past that I am not familiar with. Is it considered bad form to create a new thread if that topic that has already been discussed?

Would it be possible to expand the categories to make it easier to see if a thread already exists on a particular subject (e.g., Young Earth Creationism).


Never Gonna Break My Faith

Ronnie Earl & The Broadcasters

If your willing I would love to connect some time. Beers are on me :grinning:



Are you trying to turn this into a dating site Bill?

Peaceful Mingle?



You may not be my type :grinning:

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After a few beers you may not care. :kissing_heart:

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It isn’t bad form per se. There is really good search functionality on this website though. Try using that to see if there is a conversation worth continuing, or at least linking to. You might be better informed about how people are thinking, and be able to offer a more focused question. This can be particularly useful for the things that come up over and over.

We are still working out the categories. They will probably be adjusted, but this won’t be retroactive. Search is your friend.

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For what it’s worth @Patrick I don’t believe in a literal hell. Let that comfort you after you die. :slight_smile:

For what is worth I don’t either :slight_smile: But unfortuately for you sinning but forgiven Chrisitans, I don’t beleive in heaven either. So make the best of this life, the only one your get. :rofl:

I have new life and I have eternal life. It’s ok if you don’t understand that. But surely you’ve heard of being born again, even if you don’t believe it?

Do yourself a favor, don’t worry about the next life and make the most of this life. Life long and prosper.

I don’t believe in a next life. I believe in the life I have now. A life not born of flesh and blood.

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Great. Enjoy your life. Live long and prosper. Live each day with purpose and meaning.

I also do not believe that Jesus is going to return “any day” now. So if Patrick is concerned that Jesus will return tomorrow and that he might be “left behind”, I assure him, it will not happen.

I am so certain of this that I am willing to sell “left behind” insurance.

Thank you @Mung Since tomorrow is Saturday I was going to go to breakfast with a friend and then enjoy the day. I don’t need to worrying about being raptured or anything?

As I recall, I have treated you kindly here. This thread is an example. Perhaps there were events that poisoned the well @Mung.

Anonimity is OK, but is there a story behind the handle “Mung” that you can share.


I was in the military and served on board an aircraft carrier. We had a metal bucket that sat beneath the spigot on the coffee percolator to catch drippings and where people would empty their cold coffee. It was called the mung bucket. So that’s where it comes from.

It didn’t hurt that it’s also an acronym for mash until no good but that’s not where I took it from. :slight_smile: