So why is that a problem?
Yes, Jesus described and prophesied the falling away of those who had previously claimed to follow him. We find this theme in the Parable of the Sower. For those who are unfamiliar with it, hereâs Matthew 13:1-23.
That same day Jesus went out of the house and sat by the lake.2 Such large crowds gathered around him that he got into a boatand sat in it, while all the people stood on the shore. 3 Then he told them many things in parables, saying: âA farmer went out to sow his seed. 4 As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path, and the birds came and ate it up. 5 Some fell on rocky places, where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow. 6 But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root. 7 Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up and choked the plants. 8 Still other seed fell on good soil, where it produced a cropâa hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown. 9 Whoever has ears, let them hear.â
10 The disciples came to him and asked, âWhy do you speak to the people in parables?â
11 He replied, âBecause the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. 12 Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them. 13 This is why I speak to them in parables:
âThough seeing, they do not see;
though hearing, they do not hear or understand.14 In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:
ââYou will be ever hearing but never understanding;
you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
15 For this peopleâs heart has become calloused;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts
and turn, and I would heal them.â[a]16 But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear. 17 For truly I tell you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.
18 âListen then to what the parable of the sower means: 19 When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in their heart. This is the seed sown along the path. 20 The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. 21 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away. 22 The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful. 23 But the seed falling on good soil refers to someone who hears the word and understands it. This is the one who produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.â (NIV)
Jesus made clear that relatively few would ever truly become âfruitful followers.â The others would eventually fall away. Jesus also said of his kingdom: âBecause strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which. leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.â (Matthew 7:14 KJV)
Thanks for posting the interview, @Patrick. Very interesting.
Readers will notice that the end of the article mentions a Part 2 of the interview to be posted sometime in the future. Iâve created a reminder for myself to keep checking for it but perhaps Patrick will help keep us posted on Part 2.
Patrick, that is probably one of your most educational and insightful article postings on Peaceful Science.
So I guess Carmen Miranda is in? 
Perhaps I should expand on that, or you could read the comment by Tomato Addict, who echos my thoughts on the matter.
So, Iâve read some of the comments and found this:
âWestern rejection of Augustine and Calvin.â
Probably written by a western Calvinist. Now, I come from east and eastern church and I can tell you this: weâre not nearly as influenced by Augustine as western church is and we practically detest Calvin and his ideas while west has an abundance of Calvinâs followers. So, I simply canât wrap my head around that âwestern rejectionâ thing.
The number of people who are citing Calvinistic extremism (for lack of a better term) as one of the drivers of their deconversions is interesting to me, and fairly consistent with my own personal experience. When I was a student at an evangelical university, one of the biggest shocks I experienced was the seeming dominance of Calvinism among both many of the theology professors and students at the university.
I had come from a somewhat different (or perhaps just less coherent) theological background, and I found TULIP and its implications to be rather abhorrent. That experience wasnât a primary factor in my journey away from Christianity, but it stuck with me none-the-less.
As Eastern Orthodox monks say:
âPenal Substitution (Calvinism) leads to atheismâ (Translating)
You remember Carmen Miranda? Iâm impressed!
(And that name also brings Chiquita Banana to mind. And the advertising jingle she sang was one of the most effective in history. The banana was an exotic, unfamiliar fruit when the jingle began to educate Americans on how to select, store, and enjoy this ânewâ fruit. I assume that the Chiquita Banana character was inspired by Carmen Mirandaâs film rendition of a fruit-themed song.)
Very interesting. And your experience is not unusual. Iâve certainly heard similar descriptions from others.
Iâm a Chiquita banana and Iâm here to say
Bananas have to ripen in a - certain way âŚ
Dang, I used to know the whole song by heart.
Dan, as you know, the lyrics kept changing over the years. A lot of people no longer recall that the original lyrics provided now considered mundane instructions on how to chose not-quite-ripe bananas and then let them ripen under particular conditions according to oneâs taste preferences. I donât know of any other jingle in the decades since which provided âconsumer instructionsâ in such detail.
What has always amazed me was that this musical introduction to consumers of an exotic ânewâ fruit happened in 1944, right when WWII was in full fury. The USA was so economically powerful that, even amidst rationing of so many other consumer goods and the rationing of fuel needed for cargo ships full of bananas, America could still expand the importation of this fruit from Central America.
It reminds me of how a German general [or was it a Field Marshall? It might have been Rommel. I donât remember] knew that Germany was sure to lose the war when his troops confiscated a chocolate cake which had been shipped to an American soldier. He knew that the Americans must have had massively excess fuel and troop support networks if they could afford to ship across the Atlantic something as âsuperfluousâ as a chocolate cake to an average soldier of no great rank or influence. I still find that absolutely amazing even as I look back. That Field Marshall must have been in shock at that reality.
Introducing Central American bananas to the mass market of average Americans during WWII strikes me similarly. Even with strict rationing of many foods and other goods, the calorie intake and general nutrition levels of the average American throughout the war were quite excellent. Average Germans, on the other hand, suffered serious food deprivations long after the war was overâand the average Japanese citizen was often slowly starving even before Pearl Harbor (because the Japanese military had been diverting and stockpiling food supplies for years in preparation for war.) Health effects from those deprivations still have an impact on the children and grandchildren of those people today. [I donât have any links at hand, but Iâve read some fascinating papers on the multi-generational results of years of those war and post-war conditions in Europe and Asia.]
This interesting tangent may seem like it has nothing to do with âThe Problem of Christians Becoming Atheistsâ but Iâve had a number of fascinating conversations with ex-Christians who had left the faith due to what they saw and experienced during WWII. Among them have been those veterans who helped liberate various concentration camps or toured them shortly thereafter.
Of course, I also talked with many more veterans whose war experiences brought them to faith in Jesus Christ. Among them was my late uncle, a hardened atheist before WWII. What he experienced while working with top-secret radar technology as well as his seeing the horrors of stacked bodies and âthe walking corpsesâ in the camps led him to become a Christ-follower. He had also been continually struck by the fact that the magnetron technology was a German invention, yet it helped win the war for the Allies.
It all just goes to show that for any set of experiences, you may find some theists who turn atheist or agnosticâwhile some atheists and agnostics become theists under the very same circumstances.
I wonder if any atheists have written articles entitled, "The Problem of Atheists Becoming Christians."
I donât remember the lyrics, but I do remember the gist of some instructions at the end - never put bananas in the refrigerator. These instructions produced some internal turmoil because thatâs exactly what Mom did! It may have been the first time I had to contend with expert testimony versus what my parents taught, which brings me back on point 
It seems to me that fewer children from Christian homes are having their faith significantly challenged during their formative years. Only after leaving home and being on their own do they find that maybe Mom and Dad werenât absolutely right about everything they taught. This challenge during young adulthood can really be a âmake or breakâ experience moving forward. I believe that to some extent, Mom and Dad being overly protective of their children can have unintended, but disastrous, consequences down the road for the faith of their children.
Anyone else see this one by the same author, and his atheist friend?
Two points: this seems less overprotective than indoctrinating. And why would you say the consequences are disastrous?
Possibly - this is definitely a point worth considering. But in my opinion, parents that completely indoctrinate their children also neglect any sort of challenge to faith that will eventually occur in a less-secure environment.
I realize that many of us here have different views of what would constitute âdisastrousâ, but I carefully included âfor the faith of their childrenâ. When couched in terms of the faith, a complete loss of it would consistently be considered disastrous.
@Randal_Rauser, your interview is generating a lot of discussion. Would you be up for enganging some conversation about it?
Ah, but would you say that education was disastrous for your ignorance?
First off, I feel no need to âconvert people to atheismâ, as if that is really a thing to begin with. I have always encouraged people to believe what is in their heart. What interests me is the sociology of religion and culture, not so much on running a score on who believes what. With that said . . .
One of the main points is that the US is experiencing what Europe has already experienced, so it isnât as if this is specific to the US. As the cultural importance of specific religious beliefs fade it becomes easier for people to deconvert which creates a feedback response. The other main point seems to be that rigid theologies set people up for failure.
I have seen echoes of this in discussions within my own family. A branch of my family tree lives in the Portland, OR area which would be classified as a pretty liberal metro area. One of the big debates within that local christian community is how to approach the subject of homosexuality, and that debate has resulted in a lot of tension between cousins in my family. A congregation actually split apart because some people wanted to openly welcome and recruit homosexual couples while others just couldnât stand for it. What they did agree on is that government sponsored gay marriage was completely appropriate.
I think this one topic is emblematic of the larger picture, especially given the increased secularization and exposure young people have to what was once considered taboo. Young people will find that gay couples love each other just as any other couple does (this is my opinion and experience), and this can create a real contradiction if these young people are taught on Sundayâs how evil homosexuals are. I am certainly not going to tell christian churches what they should believe or not believe, but these are real issues that seem to be unavoidable at this point. Ignoring them seems like the worst strategy of all.
In a short answer, yes. Well, it certainly did away with some of my ignorance, but I have plenty to spare! I do get your point, though.
I understand that not everyone will consider a loss of faith to be a negative thing. But my point was regarding parents that would likely want their children to maintain their childhood faith.
Of course. But we donât have to share their attitude. Interestingly, it does appear that creationism is a major factor, as well as the talking snake, Jonahâs whale, and such, plus the doctrine of falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus.