That’s not what I have found. I didn’t stop believing in Santa Claus because I didn’t want to be answerable to his “Naughty or Nice” list. If I said you refuse to convert to Islam because you don’t want to be subject to the rules of that religion, I am sure that you would claim it has nothing to do with it.
Atheists are held accountable to ourselves, our families, our friends, and our community. We don’t see any need for accountability outside of these judges.
Sure. I expect there are other reasons too.
@Guy_Coe seems to me to be a quite good friend and member of your community in which you choose to interact here. I dont think he would call himself “judge” but he seems to me to be quite rational and quite caring to be willing to speak about Him whom i know to be the real and only God to those who have chosen to ignore His existence.
Keep in mind that my earlier posts were essentially in response to @nwrickert and his hypothesis that a desire for community is what causes some Christians turned atheists to return to Christianity. This is very much contrary to my own experience and observations. I see intellectual reasons sharing a much bigger role.
I think it is a common but inaccurate stereotype that atheism represents intellectual rigor and a commitment to explanation, in contrast to Christianity that because of its relationship to faith, does not. I have personally had a significant amount of engagement with atheism and find it the reality more the other way around. I was an atheist, became a Christian, was involved in a major Christianity-atheism debate shortly after that, later did my PhD in intellectual history (a lot of atheism there) under an atheist, and continue to have contact with atheist thought.
The outcome of that background is that I believe atheism cannot provide a complete account of the universe, human experience, and values. By not “engaging” (earlier post) I mean that certain intractable problems are typically more conjectured upon than resolved in atheism. Here, it seems to me, it is not that logic isn’t employed or that the arguments favoring atheism are uninteresting or shallow, but rather that their persuasive appeal derives more from the assumed intellectual superiority of a non-religious perspective than from logical rigor.
In regard to Christianity, I used to think that the problem of ultimate origins (l.e., were does God come from?) and of divine foreknowledge and free-will were the only real conundrums. Currently, I would limit that merely to the problem of ultimate origins. Here, Christianity is at worst in the same boat as atheism. In reality, I think Christianity is better off because it explains the existence of the contingent by appeal to something that is by definition non-contingent. Even if we can’t offer how much a thing is possible, I find it more consistent than an appeal to (ultimately) nothing in order to explain what is ultimately contingent.
I see. I don’t have any experience there that I can think of.
I don’t think of things that way myself.
Atheism is only a lack of belief in gods. I’m not aware of any reason that it would do those things. I’m not sure what you think is resolved otherwise.
That’s is as it is to you, I guess. There’s nothing I can speak to there.
I’m not sure how you know our reality is contingent, and I don’t see how Christianity explains anything. I do not appeal to “nothing”–I’m not even sure what that is. It does seem to me that there are a lot of things we don’t know, the ultimate truths of our physical reality certainly being among them.
Since you mentioned me in the previous paragraph, I’ll just comment on this. I most certainly do not claim that atheism represents intellectual rigor. There’s a wide range of degrees of intellectual rigor among atheists and a similarly wide range among theists. There are some really stupid theists out there. And there are some really stupid atheists out there. There are also some brilliant theists and some brilliant atheists.
Well of course. But, likewise, Christianity cannot provide a complete account.
I have never understood this sentiment. Not believing in one explanation does not mean you must have an explanation of your own. “I don’t know” is completely compatible with atheism.
However, I would completely that atheists being intellectually superior to theists is a false stereotype. Atheists are just as flawed as anyone else, and are just as capable of lacking intellectual rigor.
I agree. When speaking about Christianity however, the intelligence scale is not the means of achieving God or even understanding life under God’s sovereign rule. As a matter of fact, Scripture seems to lean towards the idea of high intellect in a person be more a cause of self righteousness and pride that causes their eyes to be blind to the need for God whose intelligence makes all the accumulated intelligence of every man who ever existed look to be a kernal of corn next to His ocean.
The God of Scripture could care less about the measure of intelligence in one party vs another. He even chose a pathway of what appears to be foolish in the eyes of intelligencia in the death, burial and resurrection of His Son for the forgiveness of sin and reconcilation to God!
God of scripture takes pleasure in His people when they administer a childlike faith and trust in God by trusting what He says infinitely more than any claims to superior intelligence. This does not mean that intelligent people wont be Christians. The apostle Paul was probably a genius. It is a matter of principle explained by Jesus parable about it being more difficult for a rich man to enter heaven than a camel into the eye of a needle…impossble…but it continues, “with God, all things are possible.” Being rich in Intelligence may be the very roadblock towards life with God. Wisdom repents of personal acclaim of intelligence for humbling themselves to Another. By faith this way one can “taste and see that the Lord is Good.”
Well said. But surely you are aware that some atheists think of themselves as “Brights” and think of those who hold to traditional religion as dim bulbs? That is, they do equate atheism with intellectual rigor, and religious faith with intellectual inferiority. I do wish some other atheists would stand up to these people sometimes.
Never encountered one. Have you seen any here?
Yes, I’m aware of that. I reject that approach.
I am a member of the Brights www.the-brights.net Brights don’t feel intellectually superior to “supers”, although we continue to be amazed at the stupid things people do as a result of their supernatural beliefs.
What, that still exists? It was a stupid name from the beginning. As an atheist, I feel embarrassed just to be reminded of it.
Here’s something our atheist friends could help me with. I will be lecturing for a class in two weeks on what a life worth living, a meaningful life, is from the atheist/secular humanist perspective. Anyone care to recommend reading you think I shouldn’t miss?
Robert Jordan’s Wheel of Time series is really good 
I’ve heard this book plugged and thought it sounded interesting
Here are several recent books that I found to be excellent:
Haven’t heard of these books and probably won’t get time to read them, but I just have to say the titles are very entertaining and clever.
As an atheist, I have never felt the need to read a book on that subject. At least for me, what makes life meaningful is really, really obvious, and I suspect it isn’t much different from the things that give meaning to the lives of theists. The love of my family/friends and our relationships bring a lot of meaning to my life. Learning new things, and helping others find new knowledge is greatly rewarding. Helping strangers I run into on the street brings a lot of meaning to my life. Setting and achieving career goals is meaningful. Everything that gives your life meaning outside of your religious beliefs is probably what atheists find meaningful.
What I have sensed in discussing this topic with theists is that theists are looking for an objective meaning. I think most atheists have made peace with the idea that there isn’t an objective meaning to life. Instead, we create our own meaning based on our own subjective emotions and humanity. Personally, I didn’t struggle with this transition between theism and atheism, but perhaps others have struggled with it.
Thank all for the recommendations and reflection. Much appreciated!