The Speed of Light

Comments
Science

(Robert Byers) #1

interesting bio.
Genesis implies light was created everywhere at once. so light is not from a source. The source just provokes the light out. therefore no speed of light and a way to figure out the star light measurements used against a young universe. Who has proven light speeds??
I don’t think physics is about measurements. i think that teacher was wrong. you just can also measure within physics. physics surely is more then mere measurement.
I would like to sneak in a question here if i have my facts right.
did you not have a special discussion board connected to uncommon descent??
there was a article there, I posted on, about Greenland’s bedrock and glacial movement.
i can’t find the article on google scholar or anywhere.
If i’m right could you point me in the right direction. i guess the discussion board is off the internet.
thanks.


Sal Cordova's Path to Young Earth Creationism
(James McKay) #2

WHAT?!!?

Römer & Huygens (1675), Bradley (1729), Fizeau (1849), Foucault (1862), Michelson & Morley (1887), Rosa & Dorsey (1907), Michelson (1926), Essen & Gordon-Smith (1950), Froome (1958), Evenson et al (1972). Seriously. You can find this out just by searching Wikipedia.

DOUBLE WHAT?!!?

If physics isn’t about measurements, then what on earth is it about? The fact remains that measurement is the primary tool that physicists use to reach their conclusions. You may not like their conclusions, but denying how they actually reach those conclusions is simply out of touch with reality.

Robert, please may I remind you of Proverbs 19:2. There are young-earth creationists out there who, even though their methodology may be flawed, at least make an effort to know what they are talking about. I’d suggest you actually go and study physics before you start making wild, clueless, and demonstrably wrong claims about what you think it’s about.


(Robert Byers) #3

i didn’t mean to start a conversation on this. Physics is about the reality of things in theb universe. the measuring of them is only a tool to figure out the things. there is no reason, and every reason, to see this tool as just a minor thing.
i am aware of physics and think the light thing makes sense.
Remember einstein, at the end of his life, said he didn’t know what light is.
I think because light is the essence of the universe as gEnesis, seems, to suggest.
Correcying this speed of light concept might heklp move things along.


(Jacob) #4

Did you read the Wikipedia article linked above? A wide variety of experiments over many years to demonstrate the speed of light. I don’t see why you don’t seem to think accurate measurement is not an essential thing.

I don’t think Einstein’s quote, if he said that, should be taken literally. For rare people like Einstein, Maxwell, and Newton, their “ignorance” begins at a high level of understanding few people can reach.


#5

I have doubts he even said it.

It might just be the same case as with Darwin’s ‘deathbed conversion’


(James McKay) #6

Well I’m sorry to burst your bubble there Robert, but you are simply not getting your facts straight on that one. Physics is about describing the reality of things in the universe through measurement and mathematical modelling. Measurement and mathematics are completely foundational to everything that physics is about.

I’m sorry, but claiming that measurement is “just a minor thing” in physics demonstrates a level of ignorance that is quite simply staggering. It’s like claiming that using a computer is “just a minor thing” in software engineering. Or that using an oven is “just a minor thing” in baking. Or that cameras are “just a minor thing” in photography. It’s complete and utter patent nonsense.


(S. Joshua Swamidass) #7

On of the better exchanges with you @Robert_Byers! Perhaps you are better at making your own threads than commenting on others? I’ll keep that in mind, and take opportunities when I can to kick your posts into their own threads.


(Robert Byers) #8

i like wiki. many don’t. I like youtube better. they have great videos on light and concepts.
I understand experiments to measure speed of light. i say they are wrong or possibly wrong. they were not thoughtful enough. lIke everything in evolutionism is suspect in its analysis.
Einstein did say it. This because what light iS is difficult to understand.
I believe his words words were, I don’t know what light is. other men may know but not me. Its somewhere.out there.
I don’t think they know much more. just a few insights at early days in small circles.
anyways we have Gods word to start. if i may start with a presumption.
can people prove light only comes from a source and then has a speed??
As opposed to light is the essence of the universe and the "source’ is just a provocation. Then the speed is only a ripple in a pond. That ripple is being measured. then it helps with starlight criticisms of genesis etc etc.
i got a good hunch genesis is right.


(Robert Byers) #9

The analogy is not the same. its not ignorance. its very common. in fact there is a historical "hostility’ between physics people and math people in the last centuries.
math is said to be a tool but not the essence of what the tool is investigating.
physics is about hardware. Math is software. Math only measures the reality of a real universe full of stuff. math only shows , as provereds says, God measured everything out.
Why would folks think physics is a bunch of numbers??


(Jacob) #10

They weren’t thoughtful enough? They answered questions that no one knew how to answer before. And the early attempts to measure the speed of light came before Darwin. I doubt these physicists were thinking their work had much to do with “evolutionism” anyway.

Light is just that bit of the electromagnetic spectrum that you can see. Electromagnetic waves (including light) have a constant velocity (in a vacuum); they can have a higher frequency and a shorter wavelength or a lower frequency and a longer wavelength. Nothing in our modern age would work if we could not count on light having the constant speed it has. Your phone wouldn’t work, GPS wouldn’t work. A lot wouldn’t work beyond that. And nature would be a very strange and hostile place, assuming matter could exist. I don’t see that the Bible has anything to say about the speed of light.


(Robert Byers) #11

Actually thats something I didn’t understand from sources.
IF Electro-magnetic waves have a speed amd light has this speed then why is the speed of light so named? why is it not the speed of electromagnetic waves?
ANYWAYS.
Light in a vacuum is still coming from a source. So its the source thats being measured.I’m saying thats not the light but what provoked OUT the light. The light is everywhere.)From Genesis not me).
It could be just a special case that within the REAL light the provocation does travel the same speed in the light.
Yet its just a ripple in the pond.
if light was just e;electromagnetism, (spectrum) then light would be a poor country relative.
Its speculation but I think correction of the light thing, starting from genesis, is something creationism could do.


(S. Joshua Swamidass) #12

Good question, easily answered. Light is an electromagnetic wave.


(Robert Byers) #13

I know they say this. but. then its the speed of electromagnetism or the speed of magnetism or the speed of electro elements. Even in the wiki article they are not clear.
they did say it was a particle then a wave then both etc.
If light is two things then are the two things going that speed or only go that speed when combined.?
I never understood this nor why its a spectrum./!


(S. Joshua Swamidass) #14

This is one of the weird things of the world. Sometimes light acts like a wave. Sometimes it acts like particle.


(Robert Byers) #15

Is it a weird thing in nature or is nature saying humans got it wrong. Its not a wave/or particle but its everywhere and not moving.
Its the provocation that is moving through the light. It expressing iotself as a wave/particle is a minor detail.
Genesis does say light was created on day one. Including being divided. Only later during the week was the sun/stars created. The authors expected the resders to understand light was the most important and universal element. it had no source. The sun is just like fire. It just reveals the light… not create it.
God, or mere men, did mean this in Genesis.
Anyways maybe posters here can answer my question about electromagentic speeds relative to light or what are they trying to say. Videos and wiki didn’t help.


(S. Joshua Swamidass) #16

It is based on experiments like this, where we observe light acting as both a wave an a particle at the same time.


(Neil Rickert) #17

The expression “speed of light” was in use before it was known that light was electromagnetic waves.

We say “electromagnetic waves travel at the speed of light”. We do not say “light travels at the speed of electromagnetic waves”. It’s because of the historical order of discovery.


(Jacob) #18

You can thank James Maxwell


(Ashwin S) #19

Ok, let me give this a shot. Electromagnetic waves are related to fields… It has two components. Its an oscillating magnetic field coupled to an oscillating electric field perpendicular to it.
Whenever there is a fluctuation in an electric field, there will be a corresponding fluctuation in the magnetic field. For example when an alternating current passes through a Radio transmitter antennae, it will generate oscillating electric and magnetic fields which will be propagated from the antennae. These electromagnetic waves are used in Radios , mobiles etc.
A simple Radio tower is proof that electromagnetic waves can have a source. And we can say for sure that Radio waves generated in a tower are not everywhere. So its reasonable to conclude that at least some electromagnetic waves don’t exist everywhere.

Having said that, its not clear what an electric field or a magnetic field is in reality (at least to me)… These are terms used to define properties of matter. However, why an electric charge exists in some particles, or why an electron has a particular amount of charge associated with it, or how an electromagnetic wave can also behave as a discrete photon is a mystery.


#20

In case you were wondering, GPS depends on the speed of light. It works by measuring the amount of time it takes for radio waves to travel between the satellite and the GPS receiver. By measuring the time you can get the distance, and then triangulate your location from those distances. If light moved instantaneously then GPS wouldn’t work.