# Universal Common Designer theory \[UPDATED and REVISED\]

**URL:** <https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/universal-common-designer-theory-updated-and-revised/14182>\
**Category:** Conversation\
**Tags:** Science, Design\
**Created:** [August 29, 2021, 1:46am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/universal-common-designer-theory-updated-and-revised/14182 "2021-08-29T01:46:59Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 1

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Meerkat\_SK5](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/meerkat_sk5/32/11938_2.png) [@Meerkat\_SK5](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/Meerkat_SK5)\
**Post date:** [August 29, 2021, 1:46am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/universal-common-designer-theory-updated-and-revised/14182/1 "2021-08-29T01:46:59Z")

</div>

**Introduction**

Previously, I argued for an origin of life model that combines all three origins of virus models into a single hypothesis. More importantly, I showed how the first life on earth must have been created by a common designer that is transcendent. This inference was based on four premises:

(A) There are strong similarities between biochemical and human information [1][2]

(B) Experiments show how the first life must be created by an intelligent designer [3][4][5]

(C) Life could not have developed from metabolic-first prebiotic chemistry [5A]

(D) There is nothing in the physico-chemical world [apart from life] that resembles reactions being determined by the genetic code

However, there are observations that suggest this agent also guides the evolutionary process of developing life from simple to complex.[6][7]

So the question that comes up now is…

Does Evolution proceed by Quantum consciousness?

According to literature, it has been repeatedly found that what initially seemed to be design flaws caused by an unguided process instead of a divine agent turned out not to be flaws at all with increasing understanding of the design. As a result, these observations have provided us good evidence and insight into the motives of this designer. [8]

In this article, I am going to be tying everything together that I argued, learned and discussed with everyone from previous topics.

**Universal Quantum consciousness theory**

_Quantum Consciousness_ is the vital mechanism that causes _life_ on earth to change over time [9]

_Definitions:_

Life: A non-local mathematical wave function [10]  
Quantum consciousness: A non-local choice to create and move particles [11][12] [13]

**Predictions**

If my theory is true…

We should find novel genetic changes within one of Lenski’s failed E.coli populations when genetically engineering only additive mutations.

If my theory is false…

(A) The one successful E.coli population will eventually produce one large mutational change causing a single-step speciation and produce an entire genome full of metainformation.

(B) Lenski’s 11 other failed populations will eventually produce the same positive result.

(C) Metabolism-first pre-biotic experiments will produce a self-replicating molecule.

**Methods**

_Falsification_

Positive results within an (unguided) experiment that simulates a possible natural environment

Watch 8:30-13:00 and 18:00-19:30 for more on how this is a validated method. [14]

_Verification_

Negative results in (unguided) experiment + Positive results in (guided) experiment

Both these experiments must simulate the same natural environment from the past.

Read these sources for more on how this method of confirming design is valid. [15] [16]

**Universal Common Designer Theory**

All currently living organisms have a common design that can be traced back to a universal common designer.

How? Proton-tunneling and quantum entanglement [17][18]

Why? Make sure species survive, reproduce, and fill the biosphere [8]

Where? Every mutation is directly and indirectly caused for a specific purpose

When? From viruses leading up to humans and ongoing

Who? Jesus Christ who is both Divine and human [19]

What? A Self-collapsing Universal wave-function

**Universal Common Design Model**

Before the leftover meteorites were clumped together to form the primitive earth 3.8 billion years ago, virus-like RNA molecules were created within the deep-sea hypothermal vents of the earth. Then, some of these virus-like RNA molecules were naturally selected into different species of unicellular organisms and they underwent a heavy amount of HGT from the viruses that were created within the deep-sea oceans. [20]

Then, the designer re-used these microbes and chemical constituents to separately construct basic types of animals from different locations and times around the globe. These basic types would be able to adapt to changing environments and diversify into kinds over long epochs of time.

This would involve the designer employing many familiar mechanisms, such as HGT, to facilitate this process and address a common set of problems facing unrelated organisms that are undergoing natural selection. As a result, we would see biochemical and morphological similarities among all living things that naturally give the _appearance_ of Universal common ancestry. [21][22]

_What are basic types?_

They are families and within each of these families contains different genera (such as, dog/fox/ wolf) and each genus contains one or more species.

This means that families are created (not genera or species) where there would be a basic type of dogs, which are the ancestor of all the different kinds of dogs that evolved afterwards.

_How many groups of basic types are there?_

According to the fossil record, we see the sudden appearances of [23]……

Avalon, Cambrian fauna, Ordovician, Nekton animals, Odontodes vertebrates, Land vertebrates, Insects, Dinosaurs/birds, Placental mammals, Genus Homo, and one Human pair

_Why do shared similar ERV’s between species exhibit a nested hierarchy?_

ERV sequences must resemble endogenized retroviruses in order to act as a defense mechanism against incoming harmful viruses.[24]

_Why do shared similar pseudogenes between species exhibit a nested hierarchy?_

The ceRNA hypothesis elegantly explains the widespread existence of pseudogenes in genomes and their structural similarity to intact genes.

_What key predictions are different from Universal common descent?_

(A) Functional/sequence convergence [25][26]

(B) Widespread examples of convergent evolution [27][28]

(C) Functional pseudogenes and ERV’s [29][30]

For more understanding and support for why these predictions are separate, please look into the cited sources. More importantly, please read and try to understand every other source I cited on here before responding on this topic.

[1] [200914771 9186…9191 (duke.edu)](https://courses.cs.duke.edu//common/compsci092/papers/ecoli-linux-pnas.pdf)

[2] [Grammar of protein domain architectures | PNAS](https://www.pnas.org/content/116/9/3636)

[3] [Poliovirus Baked From Scratch | Science | AAAS (sciencemag.org)](https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2002/07/poliovirus-baked-scratch)

[4] [Total synthesis of Escherichia coli with a recoded genome | Nature](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-019-1192-5.epdf?sharing_token=vRmPP0f0AKwnEgcyUXOGWdRgN0jAjWel9jnR3ZoTv0NOX3G84MyIpdOYaDpXEkW4PyZX-zbkEWBxAlaDmI8DRoF5bKEJQ-jCdXTkwuja_sE_8YtLYxAI7UTy9mdibD-ZcRD0Q858I5li06k1_mzIuWEUfez-iQRp4PzkOD9l1wJ3RUrP-3pXGvkqfVe-Tw_Qi80dIwLdKld36-Gxleh7GovnOtKnBZEGI_CiHkIOZToFxeZakWxV7_JxzmX1WbG79nHfFRkQeg24S-Sb7au2jnqQI5w_T5kJ5mEz144H_OSjj4sFaqK_bL5kKQ2bPviOxf-nl3EaH0KOe1r0lKjEfCiyb9XaxfOeu6aKnjVZ4u0%3D&tracking_referrer=www.theguardian.com)

[5] [Prebiotic chemistry and human intervention | Nature Communications](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-018-07219-5)

[5A] [Lack of evolvability in self-sustaining autocatalytic networks constraints metabolism-first scenarios for the origin of life | PNAS](https://www.pnas.org/content/107/4/1470)

[6] [A wealth of discovery built on the Human Genome Project — by the numbers (nature.com)](https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00314-6)

[7] [Evidence of non-random mutation rates suggests an evolutionary risk management strategy | Nature](https://www.nature.com/articles/nature10995)

[8] [Optimal designs - Microsoft Word Online (live.com)](https://onedrive.live.com/edit.aspx?cid=cba8626b83475ff3&page=view&resid=CBA8626B83475FF3!1852&parId=CBA8626B83475FF3!103&app=Word&wacqt=mru)

[9] [Quantum Tunnelling to the Origin and Evolution of Life (nih.gov)](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3768233/)

[10] [Measurements on the reality of the wavefunction | Nature Physics](https://www.nature.com/articles/nphys3233)

[11] [The finer scale of consciousness: quantum theory (nih.gov)](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6861790/)

[12] [[1206.6578] Quantum erasure with causally disconnected choice (arxiv.org)](https://arxiv.org/abs/1206.6578)

[13] [[1412.7790] Experimental Proof of Nonlocal Wavefunction Collapse for a Single Particle Using Homodyne Measurement (arxiv.org)](https://arxiv.org/abs/1412.7790)

[14] [God is not a Good Theory (Sean Carroll) - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ew_cNONhhKI)

[15] [A 130,000-year-old archaeological site in southern California, USA | Nature](https://www.nature.com/articles/nature22065)

[16] [“Historical science” vs. “experimental science” | National Center for Science Education (ncse.ngo)](https://ncse.ngo/creationism/analysis/historical-science-vs-experimental-science)

[17] [Scientists Identify Fleeting Quantum Jitters that Drive Mutation Rate in DNA (genengnews.com)](https://www.genengnews.com/topics/omics/scientists-identify-fleeting-quantum-jitters-that-drive-mutation-rate-in-dna/)

[18] [How quantum entanglement in DNA synchronizes double-strand breakage by type II restriction endonucleases (nih.gov)](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4746125/)

[19] [The Resurrection, Evidence, and The Scientist - The Veritas Forum - The Veritas Forum](http://www.veritas.org/evidence-easter-scientists-list/)

[20] [Would this Origin of life model work? - Peaceful Science](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/would-this-origin-of-life-model-work/13971)

[21] [Expression of multiple horizontally acquired genes is a hallmark of both vertebrate and invertebrate genomes | Genome Biology | Full Text (biomedcentral.com)](https://genomebiology.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13059-015-0607-3)

[22] [Biased gene transfer mimics patterns created through shared ancestry | PNAS](https://www.pnas.org/content/107/23/10679)

[23] [Fossil Discontinuities: Refutation of Darwinism & Confirmation of Intelligent Design - Gunter Bechly - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7w5QGqcnNs)

[24] [Degradation and remobilization of endogenous retroviruses by recombination during the earliest stages of a germ-line invasion | PNAS](https://www.pnas.org/content/115/34/8609)

[25] [Convergent evolution of major histocompatibility complex molecules in humans and New World monkeys | Request PDF (researchgate.net)](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/12563013_Convergent_evolution_of_major_histocompatibility_complex_molecules_in_humans_and_New_World_monkeys)

[26] [Evidence of a false thumb in a fossil carnivore clarifies the evolution of pandas | PNAS](https://www.pnas.org/content/103/2/379)

[27] [Convergent evolution seen in hundreds of genes | Nature](https://www.nature.com/articles/nature.2013.13679)

[28] [Contingency and entrenchment in protein evolution under purifying selection | PNAS](https://www.pnas.org/content/112/25/E3226)

[29] [Overcoming challenges and dogmas to understand the functions of pseudogenes | Nature Reviews Genetics](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41576-019-0196-1)

[30] [Plagiarized Errors and Molecular Genetics (talkorigins.org)](http://talkorigins.org/faqs/molgen/)

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![John\_Harshman](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/john_harshman/32/1121_2.png) [@John\_Harshman](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/John_Harshman)\
**Post date:** [August 29, 2021, 2:20pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/universal-common-designer-theory-updated-and-revised/14182/2 "2021-08-29T14:20:04Z")

</div>

> [@Meerkat\_SK5](#):
>
> _What are basic types?_
> 
> They are families

How do you know that?

> [@Meerkat\_SK5](#):
>
> According to the fossil record, we see the sudden appearances of [23]……
> 
> Avalon, Cambrian fauna, Ordovician, Nekton animals, Odontodes vertebrates, Land vertebrates, Insects, Dinosaurs/birds, Placental mammals, Genus Homo, and one Human pair

Not one of these is a family. (Some of them are just plain incoherent.) Must you contradict yourself in successive sentences?

> [@Meerkat\_SK5](#):
>
> _Why do shared similar ERV’s between species exhibit a nested hierarchy?_
> 
> ERV sequences must resemble endogenized retroviruses in order to act as a defense mechanism against incoming harmful viruses.

This is not a reason to expect a nested hierarchy.

> [@Meerkat\_SK5](#):
>
> The ceRNA hypothesis elegantly explains the widespread existence of pseudogenes in genomes and their structural similarity to intact genes.

It doesn’t, and at any rate it doesn’t explain nested hierarchy.

> [@Meerkat\_SK5](#):
>
> What key predictions are different from Universal common descent?

Your key predictions are not even predictions. Many of your “references” aren’t even scientific papers. One can give you credit for at least making the attempt, but it’s an incompetent attempt. Sorry.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Mercer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Mercer](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/Mercer)\
**Post date:** [August 29, 2021, 2:21pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/universal-common-designer-theory-updated-and-revised/14182/3 "2021-08-29T14:21:04Z")

</div>

> [@Meerkat\_SK5](#):
>
> _Why do shared similar pseudogenes between species exhibit a nested hierarchy?_
> 
> The ceRNA hypothesis elegantly explains the widespread existence of pseudogenes in genomes and their structural similarity to intact genes.

Neither existence nor similarity constitute nested hierarchies, though. Do you not understand the mathematical concept?

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Tim](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/tim/32/9381_2.png) [@Tim](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/Tim)\
**Post date:** [August 29, 2021, 2:24pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/universal-common-designer-theory-updated-and-revised/14182/4 "2021-08-29T14:24:18Z")

</div>

On your Quantum Woo:

> [@Meerkat\_SK5](#):
>
> _Quantum Consciousness_ is the vital mechanism that causes _life_ on earth to change over time [9]

Your cited source makes **NO** mention of “Quantum Consciousness” (or of consciousness at all) so **does not support your claim**.

> [@Meerkat\_SK5](#):
>
> Life: A non-local mathematical wave function [10]

Likewise your cited source for this only states that QM is only connected to “biology through chemistry to physics”. It does not state, or imply, that life is “a non-local mathematical wave function”.

> [@Meerkat\_SK5](#):
>
> Quantum consciousness: A non-local choice to create and move particles [11][12] [13]

Only your first cited source makes mention of “Quantum Consciousness” (or of consciousness at all). And it explicitly states that it is **only a hypothesis**.

Even if this hypothesis is confirmed, it is still a long way from providing an explanation for creation _ex nihilo_ by your _asserted_ “Universal Common Designer”. If this hypothesis is confirmed then _all life_ possesses “quantum consciousness”, but I have seen no evidence of any of us creating physical objects simply with our minds. This whole line of argument gets you _exactly nowhere_.

You are continuing to _misrepresent_, and more particularly to _massively exagerate_, your sources.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Tim](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/tim/32/9381_2.png) [@Tim](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/Tim)\
**Post date:** [August 29, 2021, 2:25pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/universal-common-designer-theory-updated-and-revised/14182/5 "2021-08-29T14:25:50Z")

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I really wonder why we bother conversing with you @Meerkat_SK5, when you keep repeating your _assertions_ after they have been repeatedly _debunked_.

> [@Meerkat\_SK5](#):
>
> This inference was based on four premises:
> 
> (A) There are strong similarities between biochemical and human information [1][2]
> 
> (B) Experiments show how the first life must be created by an intelligent designer [3][4][5]
> 
> (C) Life could not have developed from metabolic-first prebiotic chemistry [5A]
> 
> (D) There is nothing in the physico-chemical world [apart from life] that resembles reactions being determined by the genetic code

(A) The two cited sources only demonstrated comparitively **weak** similarity “between biochemical and human information”.

(B) Your next three cited sources _in no way_ demonstrate that “first life must be created by an intelligent designer”.

(C) Your cited source _does not_ claim that “life could not have developed from metabolic-first prebiotic chemistry”.

(D) is uncited, is a heroically strong assertion (“there is nothing … that resembles …”) and can therefore be dismissed out of hand.

Even if these four **unsubstantiated assertions** were true, it is unclear how they would support your assertion that:

> [@Meerkat\_SK5](#):
>
> I showed how the first life on earth must have been created by a common designer that is transcendent.

Your prior argumentation on this has been, to say the least, very very _muddy_.

Based on this, I would suggest that you have gotten **exactly nowhere**.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![nwrickert](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/nwrickert/32/810_2.png) [@nwrickert](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/nwrickert)\
**Post date:** [August 29, 2021, 2:26pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/universal-common-designer-theory-updated-and-revised/14182/6 "2021-08-29T14:26:26Z")

</div>

> [@Meerkat\_SK5](#):
>
> More importantly, I showed how the first life on earth must have been created by a common designer that is transcendent.

No, you have not shown anything of the kind.

You may believe that you have shown this. But nobody at PS has indicated any agreement.

> [@Meerkat\_SK5](#):
>
> Does Evolution proceed by Quantum consciousness?

You are making a huge mistake by pinning your ideas to quantum consciousness. Most of the people doing consciousness research have a poor opinion of quantum consciousness ideas.

> [@Meerkat\_SK5](#):
>
> Life: A non-local mathematical wave function

Life is real. The wave function is abstract. They cannot be the same thing.

> [@Meerkat\_SK5](#):
>
> If my theory is true…

You don’t have a theory. You have a very poor idea of what scientists mean by “theory”. At most, you have a speculative hypothesis, but even that may be too generous. It reads more like an “Alice in wonderland” adventure story.

> [@Meerkat\_SK5](#):
>
> We should find novel genetic changes within one of Lenski’s failed E.coli populations when genetically engineering only additive mutations.

I’m not sure what that is supposed to mean. I doubt that Lenski sees any of his populations as failed. As far as I know, the experiment is still continuing.

> [@Meerkat\_SK5](#):
>
> If my theory is false…
> 
> (A) The one successful E.coli population will eventually produce one large mutational change causing a single-step speciation and produce an entire genome full of metainformation.

What do you mean by “an entire genome full of metainformation”?

> [@Meerkat\_SK5](#):
>
> (B) Lenski’s 11 other failed populations will eventually produce the same positive result.
> 
> (C) Metabolism-first pre-biotic experiments will produce a self-replicating molecule.

You are setting the conditions for failure to be so narrow, that they are unlikely to occur.

It looks as if you are defining “failure” so narrowly that “failure” is impossible. Will you then declare “success”? This seems like a form of cheating.

> [@Meerkat\_SK5](#):
>
> Negative results in (unguided) experiment + Positive results in (guided) experiment
> 
> Both these experiments must simulate the same natural environment from the past.

Any simulation is already guided. So your requirements cannot be met.

> [@Meerkat\_SK5](#):
>
> All currently living organisms have a common design that can be traced back to a universal common designer.

If you fail to trace them all back, will you count that as a failure of your idea?

> [@Meerkat\_SK5](#):
>
> How? Proton-tunneling and quantum entanglement

Is that supposed to be the “how” of how you do the tracing? Or is that supposed to be the “how” of how the designing was done?

I think I’ll stop there for now.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Dan\_Eastwood](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/dan_eastwood/32/2368_2.png) [@Dan\_Eastwood](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/Dan_Eastwood)\
**Post date:** [August 29, 2021, 9:59pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/universal-common-designer-theory-updated-and-revised/14182/7 "2021-08-29T21:59:23Z")

</div>

> “Curiously enough, the only thing that went through the mind of the bowl of petunias as it fell was _Oh **no** , not again._ Many people have speculated that if we knew exactly why the bowl of petunias had thought that we would know a lot more about the nature of the Universe than we do now.”

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Rumraket](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/rumraket/32/9328_2.png) [@Rumraket](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/Rumraket)\
**Post date:** [August 29, 2021, 11:23pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/universal-common-designer-theory-updated-and-revised/14182/8 "2021-08-29T23:23:56Z")

</div>

> [@Meerkat\_SK5](#):
>
> **Predictions**
> 
> If my theory is true…
> 
> We should find novel genetic changes within one of Lenski’s failed E.coli populations when genetically engineering only additive mutations.
> 
> If my theory is false…
> 
> (A) The one successful E.coli population will eventually produce one large mutational change causing a single-step speciation and produce an entire genome full of metainformation.
> 
> (B) Lenski’s 11 other failed populations will eventually produce the same positive result.
> 
> (C) Metabolism-first pre-biotic experiments will produce a self-replicating molecule.

The reasoning here is extremely poor. All of these are non-sequiturs, and some of them aren’t even coherent statements. Nothing in the Lenski experiments has “failed”. An experiment can’t fail to do something it was never intended or expected to do in the first place, and which it was not remotely designed to even test.

But more importantly, NONE of these would seem to follow from any theory that life on Earth is the product of intelligent design. That’s because the possibility of a physical and chemical origin of life is not mutually exclusive with the possibility that an intelligent designer can (and/or did) design and create life too.

It is possible that life _could_ naturally originate through some mechanism, but that it _was_ intelligently designed. Finding that life’s natural origin is possible would not somehow disprove the possibility that an intelligent designer also created life at some point. The fact that humans know how to start a fire doesn’t mean fires can’t also start naturally. And even if we didn’t know how to start fires, that wouldn’t mean fires couldn’t start naturally, nor that we couldn’t find a way to do it ourselves in the future.

Life _could_ have been intelligently designed and planted on some planets, _and_ have naturally evolved on others. Life _could_ have originated naturally on some planet, evolved into intelligent designers, which then went on to create life elsewhere. And all other possible combinations of history here are possible. These aren’t dichotomies.

There’s just no principle that demands that _if_ life on Earth was intelligently designed and created, it must then be impossible for life to also originate naturally. Nor the other way around, obviously.

That just doesn’t follow. Why are IDcreationists always so bent on this strange dichotomy where one has to occur to the exclusion of even the possibility of the other?

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![CrisprCAS9](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/crisprcas9/32/9145_2.png) [@CrisprCAS9](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/CrisprCAS9)\
**Post date:** [August 29, 2021, 11:24pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/universal-common-designer-theory-updated-and-revised/14182/9 "2021-08-29T23:24:02Z")

</div>

> [@Meerkat\_SK5](#):
>
> (A) There are strong similarities between biochemical and human information

Strongly disagree, not supported by citations.

> [@Meerkat\_SK5](#):
>
> (B) Experiments show how the first life must be created by an intelligent designer

Objectively wrong, citations not even relevant.

> [@Meerkat\_SK5](#):
>
> (C) Life could not have developed from metabolic-first prebiotic chemistry

Possibly true, not relevant to anything.

> [@Meerkat\_SK5](#):
>
> (D) There is nothing in the physico-chemical world [apart from life] that resembles reactions being determined by the genetic code

Objectively false, unsupported by evidence.

Your argument is fundamentally unsound, so fails before it starts.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Puck\_Mendelssohn](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/puck_mendelssohn/32/11849_2.png) [@Puck\_Mendelssohn](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/Puck_Mendelssohn)\
**Post date:** [August 29, 2021, 11:24pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/universal-common-designer-theory-updated-and-revised/14182/10 "2021-08-29T23:24:11Z")

</div>

Wow. Four completely false and insupportable premises, leading to a completely false and insupportable conclusion. You’ve outdone yourself, or outdone something or other, at least.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Meerkat\_SK5](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/meerkat_sk5/32/11938_2.png) [@Meerkat\_SK5](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/Meerkat_SK5)\
**Post date:** [August 30, 2021, 1:47pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/universal-common-designer-theory-updated-and-revised/14182/11 "2021-08-30T13:47:25Z")

</div>

I made a number of quick changes to my initial post in response to criticisms here to bring more clarity. I will address the leftover comments in-depth later.

_ **Please read carefully again** _

**Introduction**

Previously, I argued for an origin of life model that combines all three origins of virus models into a single hypothesis. More importantly, I showed how the first life on earth must have been created by a common designer that is transcendent. This inference was based on four _lines of evidence_:

(A) Biochemical and human information are analogous to each other [1][2]

(B) These COMBINED experiments show how the first life must be created by an intelligent designer [3][4][5][12][13]

(C) Metabolic-first prebiotic chemistry theoretically lack evolvability [5A]

(D) There is nothing in the physico-chemical world [apart from life] that resembles reactions being determined by the genetic code [5B]

However, there are observations that suggest this agent also guides the evolutionary process of developing life from simple to complex.[6][7]

So the question that comes up now is…

Does Evolution proceed by Quantum consciousness?

According to literature, it has been repeatedly found that what initially seemed to be design flaws caused by an unguided process instead of a divine agent turned out not to be flaws at all with increasing understanding of the design. As a result, these observations have provided us good evidence and insight into the motives of this designer. [8]

In this article, I am going to be tying everything together that I argued, learned and discussed with everyone from previous topics.

**Universal Quantum consciousness theory**

_Quantum Consciousness_ is the vital mechanism that causes _life_ on earth to change over time [9][10][11][11A]

Definitions:

_Life_: A non-local mathematical wave function

_Quantum consciousness_: A non-local choice to create and move particles

**Predictions**

_If my theory is true_…

We should find novel genetic changes within one of Lenski’s failed E.coli populations when genetically engineering only additive mutations.

_If my theory is false_…

(A) The one successful E.coli population will eventually produce one large mutational change causing a single-step speciation and produce an entire genome of information (i.e. _tells the cell how to maintain information or how to pass it on to the next generation_).

(B) Lenski’s 11 other populations will eventually produce the same positive result.

(C) Metabolism-first pre-biotic experiments will produce a self-replicating molecule.

**Methods**

_Falsification_

Positive results within an (unguided) experiment that simulates a possible natural environment

Watch 8:30-13:00 and 18:00-19:30 for more on how this is a validated method. [14]

_Verification_

Negative results in (unguided) experiment + Positive results in (guided) experiment

Both these experiments must simulate the same natural environment from the past.

Read these sources for more on how this method of confirming design is valid. [15] [16]

**Universal Common Designer Theory**

All currently living organisms have a common design that can be traced back to a universal common designer.

How? Proton-tunneling and quantum entanglement [17][18]

Why? Make sure species survive, reproduce, and fill the biosphere [8]

Where? Every mutation is directly and indirectly caused for a specific purpose

When? From viruses leading up to humans and ongoing

Who? Jesus Christ who is both Divine and human [19]

What? A Self-collapsing Universal wave-function

**Universal Common Design Model**

Before the leftover meteorites were clumped together to form the primitive earth 3.8 billion years ago, virus-like RNA molecules were created within the deep-sea hypothermal vents of the earth. Then, some of these virus-like RNA molecules were naturally selected into different species of unicellular organisms and they underwent a heavy amount of HGT from the viruses that were created within the deep-sea oceans. [20]

Then, the designer re-used these microbes and chemical constituents to separately construct basic types of animals from different locations and times around the globe. These basic types would be able to adapt to changing environments and diversify into kinds over long epochs of time.

This would involve the designer employing many familiar mechanisms, such as HGT, to facilitate this process and address a common set of problems facing unrelated organisms that are undergoing natural selection. As a result, we would see biochemical and morphological similarities among all living things that naturally give the _appearance_ of Universal common ancestry. [21][22]

_What are basic types?_

They are families and within each of these families contains different genera (such as, dog/fox/ wolf) and each genus contains one or more species.

This means that families are created (not genera or species) where there would be a basic type of dogs, which are the ancestor of all the different kinds of dogs that evolved afterwards. Therefore, discontinuities in the fossil record are considered families **according to the common design model**.[23]

_How many groups of basic types are there?_

11+

_Which group of organisms are considered basic types?_

Avalon, Cambrian fauna, Ordovician, Nekton animals, Odontodes vertebrates, Land vertebrates, Insects, Dinosaurs/birds, Placental mammals, Genus Homo, and one Human pair. [23]

_Why do shared similar ERV’s between species exhibit a nested hierarchy?_ (i.e. **Teleology** )

ERV sequences must resemble endogenized retroviruses in order to act as a defense mechanism against incoming harmful viruses.[24]

_Why do shared similar pseudogenes between species exhibit a nested hierarchy?_ (i.e. **Teleology** )

The ceRNA hypothesis elegantly explains the widespread existence of pseudogenes in genomes and their structural similarity to intact genes.

_What are the key differences from Universal common descent?_

(A) Functional/sequence convergence [25][26]

(B) Widespread examples of convergent evolution [27][28]

(C) Functional pseudogenes and ERV’s [29][30]

[1] [200914771 9186…9191 (duke.edu)](https://courses.cs.duke.edu//common/compsci092/papers/ecoli-linux-pnas.pdf)

[2] [Grammar of protein domain architectures | PNAS](https://www.pnas.org/content/116/9/3636)

[3] [Poliovirus Baked From Scratch | Science | AAAS (sciencemag.org)](https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2002/07/poliovirus-baked-scratch)

[4] [Total synthesis of Escherichia coli with a recoded genome | Nature](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-019-1192-5.epdf?sharing_token=vRmPP0f0AKwnEgcyUXOGWdRgN0jAjWel9jnR3ZoTv0NOX3G84MyIpdOYaDpXEkW4PyZX-zbkEWBxAlaDmI8DRoF5bKEJQ-jCdXTkwuja_sE_8YtLYxAI7UTy9mdibD-ZcRD0Q858I5li06k1_mzIuWEUfez-iQRp4PzkOD9l1wJ3RUrP-3pXGvkqfVe-Tw_Qi80dIwLdKld36-Gxleh7GovnOtKnBZEGI_CiHkIOZToFxeZakWxV7_JxzmX1WbG79nHfFRkQeg24S-Sb7au2jnqQI5w_T5kJ5mEz144H_OSjj4sFaqK_bL5kKQ2bPviOxf-nl3EaH0KOe1r0lKjEfCiyb9XaxfOeu6aKnjVZ4u0%3D&tracking_referrer=www.theguardian.com)

[5] [Prebiotic chemistry and human intervention | Nature Communications](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-018-07219-5)

[5A] [Lack of evolvability in self-sustaining autocatalytic networks constraints metabolism-first scenarios for the origin of life | PNAS](https://www.pnas.org/content/107/4/1470)

[5B] [Origin of life on earth and Shannon’s theory of communication - ScienceDirect](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0097848500800108)

[6] [A wealth of discovery built on the Human Genome Project — by the numbers (nature.com)](https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00314-6)

[7] [Evidence of non-random mutation rates suggests an evolutionary risk management strategy | Nature](https://www.nature.com/articles/nature10995)

[8] [Optimal designs - Microsoft Word Online (live.com)](https://onedrive.live.com/edit.aspx?cid=cba8626b83475ff3&page=view&resid=CBA8626B83475FF3!1852&parId=CBA8626B83475FF3!103&app=Word&wacqt=mru)

[9] [Quantum Tunnelling to the Origin and Evolution of Life (nih.gov)](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3768233/)

[10] [Measurements on the reality of the wavefunction | Nature Physics](https://www.nature.com/articles/nphys3233)

[11] [The finer scale of consciousness: quantum theory (nih.gov)](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6861790/)

[11A] [Consciousness in the universe: A review of the ‘Orch OR’ theory - ScienceDirect](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1571064513001188?via%3Dihub)

[12] [[1206.6578] Quantum erasure with causally disconnected choice (arxiv.org)](https://arxiv.org/abs/1206.6578)

[13] [[1412.7790] Experimental Proof of Nonlocal Wavefunction Collapse for a Single Particle Using Homodyne Measurement (arxiv.org)](https://arxiv.org/abs/1412.7790)

[14] [God is not a Good Theory (Sean Carroll) - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ew_cNONhhKI)

[15] [A 130,000-year-old archaeological site in southern California, USA | Nature](https://www.nature.com/articles/nature22065)

[16] [“Historical science” vs. “experimental science” | National Center for Science Education (ncse.ngo)](https://ncse.ngo/creationism/analysis/historical-science-vs-experimental-science)

[17] [Scientists Identify Fleeting Quantum Jitters that Drive Mutation Rate in DNA (genengnews.com)](https://www.genengnews.com/topics/omics/scientists-identify-fleeting-quantum-jitters-that-drive-mutation-rate-in-dna/)

[18] [How quantum entanglement in DNA synchronizes double-strand breakage by type II restriction endonucleases (nih.gov)](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4746125/)

[19] [The Resurrection, Evidence, and The Scientist - The Veritas Forum - The Veritas Forum](http://www.veritas.org/evidence-easter-scientists-list/)

[20] [Would this Origin of life model work? - Peaceful Science](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/would-this-origin-of-life-model-work/13971)

[21] [Expression of multiple horizontally acquired genes is a hallmark of both vertebrate and invertebrate genomes | Genome Biology | Full Text (biomedcentral.com)](https://genomebiology.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13059-015-0607-3)

[22] [Biased gene transfer mimics patterns created through shared ancestry | PNAS](https://www.pnas.org/content/107/23/10679)

[23] [Fossil Discontinuities: Refutation of Darwinism & Confirmation of Intelligent Design - Gunter Bechly - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7w5QGqcnNs)

[24] [Degradation and remobilization of endogenous retroviruses by recombination during the earliest stages of a germ-line invasion | PNAS](https://www.pnas.org/content/115/34/8609)

[25] [Convergent evolution of major histocompatibility complex molecules in humans and New World monkeys | Request PDF (researchgate.net)](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/12563013_Convergent_evolution_of_major_histocompatibility_complex_molecules_in_humans_and_New_World_monkeys)

[26] [Evidence of a false thumb in a fossil carnivore clarifies the evolution of pandas | PNAS](https://www.pnas.org/content/103/2/379)

[27] [Convergent evolution seen in hundreds of genes | Nature](https://www.nature.com/articles/nature.2013.13679)

[28] [Contingency and entrenchment in protein evolution under purifying selection | PNAS](https://www.pnas.org/content/112/25/E3226)

[29] [Overcoming challenges and dogmas to understand the functions of pseudogenes | Nature Reviews Genetics](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41576-019-0196-1)

[30] [Plagiarized Errors and Molecular Genetics (talkorigins.org)](http://talkorigins.org/faqs/molgen/)

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Tim](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/tim/32/9381_2.png) [@Tim](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/Tim)\
**Post date:** [August 30, 2021, 6:00pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/universal-common-designer-theory-updated-and-revised/14182/12 "2021-08-30T18:00:16Z")

</div>

Prefatory remark: it would be a _lot_ easier to follow your citations if you placed them **in-line** , rather than at the end, e.g.:

Random statement.[[1]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randomness)

> [@Meerkat\_SK5](#):
>
> (A) Biochemical and human information are analogous to each other [1][2]

An analogy _is not_ a “line of evidence” for the simple fact (that has been repeated many times on this forum) that _analogies are not evidence_. They are a _purely explanatory_ device, of _no probative value_.

> [@Meerkat\_SK5](#):
>
> (B) These COMBINED experiments show how the first life must be created by an intelligent designer [3][4][5][12][13]

[5] _isn’t an experiment._ It is merely a _discussion_ of potential constraints on Abiogenesis research.  
[3], [4], [12] & [13] have nothing to do with either "first life or “an intelligent designer”.

Therefore these citations show _no such thing_.

> [@Meerkat\_SK5](#):
>
> (C) Metabolic-first prebiotic chemistry theoretically lack evolvability [5A]

This is not clear from the cited source, which states that:

> We conclude that this fundamental limitation of ensemble replicators cautions against metabolism-first theories of the origin of life, _although ancient metabolic systems could have provided a stable habitat within which polymer replicators later evolved_.

[My emphasis]

It should also be noted that later work is more optimistic about the evolvability of Autocatalytic Sets, e.g. [here](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10441-012-9165-1).

Further, you have presented no evidence that ‘metabolism-first’ is the only game in town in terms of viable Abiogenesis research.

> [@Meerkat\_SK5](#):
>
> (D) There is nothing in the physico-chemical world [apart from life] that resembles reactions being determined by the genetic code [5B]

This is only the opinion of a single scientist, writing 20 years ago. It is not an established fact.

> [@Meerkat\_SK5](#):
>
> However, there are observations that suggest this agent also guides the evolutionary process of developing life from simple to complex.[6][7]

This claim is not supported by either of these cited sources.

But again, _even if_ these _purported_ “lines of evidence” were established, they would _in no way_ show that “the first life on earth must have been created by a common designer that is transcendent”.

Of these _purported_ “lines of evidence” only (B) (which is _wholly unsupported_ by your citations) appears to be relevant. But neither it (nor A, C or D) _provide any evidence whatsoever_ that your _purported_ designer is either common or transcendent.

> [@Meerkat\_SK5](#):
>
> According to literature, it has been repeatedly found that what initially seemed to be design flaws caused by an unguided process instead of a divine agent turned out not to be flaws at all with increasing understanding of the design. As a result, these observations have provided us good evidence and insight into the motives of this designer. [8]

This claim appears to be cited to some random online MS-Word document. Inaccessible and likely of zero probative value.

> [@Meerkat\_SK5](#):
>
> _Quantum Consciousness_ is the vital mechanism that causes _life_ on earth to change over time [9][10][11][11A]

**Utter, unmitigated, unsubstantiated _balderdash_!** _None_ of your cited sources make any such claim. _None_ of them in fact link quantum consciousness to the evolution of life _in any way shape or form_.

@Meerkat_SK5: your so-called Universal Common Designer ‘theory’ has no more scientific basis or validity than the infamous [Time Cube](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_Cube) theory. You are simply wasting our time by repeatedly regurgitating this nonsense.

In spite of your pleading that we “_ **Please read carefully again** _”, it is abundantly clear that you **have not read our criticisms carefully!**

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![CrisprCAS9](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/crisprcas9/32/9145_2.png) [@CrisprCAS9](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/CrisprCAS9)\
**Post date:** [August 30, 2021, 6:00pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/universal-common-designer-theory-updated-and-revised/14182/13 "2021-08-30T18:00:20Z")

</div>

> [@Meerkat\_SK5](#):
>
> (A) Biochemical and human information are analogous to each other [1][2]

Strongly disagree (still), not supported by citations (still).

> [@Meerkat\_SK5](#):
>
> (B) These COMBINED experiments show how the first life must be created by an intelligent designer [3][4][5][12][13]

Objectively wrong (still), citations not relevant (still).

> [@Meerkat\_SK5](#):
>
> (C) Metabolic-first prebiotic chemistry theoretically lack evolvability [5A]

Improved wording from last time. Possibly true (still), but not relevant to anything (still).

> [@Meerkat\_SK5](#):
>
> (D) There is nothing in the physico-chemical world [apart from life] that resembles reactions being determined by the genetic code [5B]

Objectively false (still), citation objectively wrong. It’s \>20 years out of date, so maybe not surprising.

Instead of rewording the entire thing unsatisfactorily dozens of times, start by giving a successful defense of premise one. Once a degree of agreement can be found there, then **(and only then)** move on to your second line of evidence.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![John\_Harshman](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/john_harshman/32/1121_2.png) [@John\_Harshman](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/John_Harshman)\
**Post date:** [August 30, 2021, 6:00pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/universal-common-designer-theory-updated-and-revised/14182/14 "2021-08-30T18:00:47Z")

</div>

> [@Meerkat\_SK5](#):
>
> _How many groups of basic types are there?_
> 
> 11+

What do you mean by “groups of basic types”? Why should basic types be organized into groups, and in fact into groups within groups, i.e. a nested hierarchy?

> [@Meerkat\_SK5](#):
>
> _Which group of organisms are considered basic types?_
> 
> Avalon, Cambrian fauna, Ordovician, Nekton animals, Odontodes vertebrates, Land vertebrates, Insects, Dinosaurs/birds, Placental mammals, Genus Homo, and one Human pair.

This is worse than it was before. These can’t be basic types. They aren’t families, and many of them are nested within others. You have addressed nothing. I would point out also that Avalon is a location, the Ordovician is a time period, Odontodes are teeth. You clearly have no clue what you’re talking about here.

> [@Meerkat\_SK5](#):
>
> _Why do shared similar ERV’s between species exhibit a nested hierarchy?_ (i.e. **Teleology** )

A nested hierarchy isn’t teleology. Once again your “clarification” serves only to confuse. This new post was useless and failed to respond to any of the criticisms of the original.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Spinosaurus-729](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8c91f0/32.png) [@Spinosaurus-729](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/Spinosaurus-729)\
**Post date:** [August 30, 2021, 6:00pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/universal-common-designer-theory-updated-and-revised/14182/15 "2021-08-30T18:00:53Z")

</div>

Speaking of quantum woo, Gunter Bechly [seems to be a proponent of it,](https://www.bechly.at/anti-darwinism-1/).

Meerkat and Bechly are just mixing together terminology from quantum mechanics in a way that would make Deepak Chopra proud. This is very annoying for a physics student like me. Try to make sense of a single sentence of Bechly’s rant.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Spinosaurus-729](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8c91f0/32.png) [@Spinosaurus-729](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/Spinosaurus-729)\
**Post date:** [August 30, 2021, 6:00pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/universal-common-designer-theory-updated-and-revised/14182/16 "2021-08-30T18:00:55Z")

</div>

Physics student here. Your part on “quantum consciousness” is just plain wrong. Deepak Chopra level stuff.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Tim](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/tim/32/9381_2.png) [@Tim](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/Tim)\
**Post date:** [September 1, 2021, 6:50am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/universal-common-designer-theory-updated-and-revised/14182/17 "2021-09-01T06:50:35Z")

</div>

I think a very large part of your problem is that you have failed to demonstrate (to anybody’s satisfaction it would seem but your own) how your claims are supported by your citations.

This is further rendered even more problematical by the fact that you tend to use _outdated_ sources (most notably your continuing obsession with the opinions of the _late_ Dr Yockey), rather than look at the _full context_ of _on-going_ research into the areas you are touching upon.

In turn you fail to demonstrate (again to anybody’s satisfaction it would seem but your own), how your “premises”/“lines of evidence” support what _you believe_ you have “showed”.

I think you should seriously consider taking @CrisprCAS9’s advice to:

> [@CrisprCAS9](#):
>
> Instead of rewording the entire thing unsatisfactorily dozens of times, start by giving a successful defense of premise one. Once a degree of agreement can be found there, then **(and only then)** move on to your second line of evidence.

But **before** you do this, I think you first need to:

1. Reread _carefully_ the sources you cite for each premise, and consider whether they _precisely address that premise_. It is _not_ sufficient for them simply to be talking about the same _general_ topic (let alone only a peripherally relevant topic).

2. Look up your cited sources in Google Scholar, find out what papers cite your sources, and thus find out how scientific research has advanced on the topic _since_ the source came out.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Meerkat\_SK5](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/meerkat_sk5/32/11938_2.png) [@Meerkat\_SK5](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/Meerkat_SK5)\
**Post date:** [September 1, 2021, 3:12pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/universal-common-designer-theory-updated-and-revised/14182/18 "2021-09-01T15:12:55Z")

</div>

> [@John\_Harshman](#):
>
> What do you mean by “groups of basic types”? Why should basic types be organized into groups, and in fact into groups within groups, i.e. a nested hierarchy?

I was just going off what the fossil record supposedly reveals. For instance, I thought maybe the sudden appearance of placental mammals involved many different families being created in a brief time in different locations without an ancestor. If this is not the case, then nevermind. You certainly know more than me on the state of the fossil record.

> [@John\_Harshman](#):
>
> This is not a reason to expect a nested hierarchy.

Well, it depends on which “why” question you are referring to. If you were referring to the mechanistic “why”, then you would be correct but I have already explained how HGT in regards to viruses would be the mechanism, as I suggested in my model:

"_This would involve the designer employing many familiar mechanisms, such as HGT, to facilitate this process and address a common set of problems facing unrelated organisms that are undergoing natural selection. As a result, we would see biochemical and morphological similarities among all living things that naturally give the appearance of Universal common ancestry._ [21][22] "

Instead, I was just focusing on answering the “why” question from a teleological perspective since the common design model requires it. More importantly, it separates the model from common descent, which is why I am answering the “why” questions in that manner.

> [@Tim](#):
>
> This is further rendered even more problematical by the fact that you tend to use _outdated_ sources (most notably your continuing obsession with the opinions of the _late_ Dr Yockey), rather than look at the _full context_ of _on-going_ research into the areas you are touching upon.

What’s considered an outdated source according to everybody on PS?

> [@Tim](#):
>
> 1. Reread _carefully_ the sources you cite for each premise, and consider whether they _precisely address that premise_ . It is _not_ sufficient for them simply to be talking about the same _general_ topic (let alone only a peripherally relevant topic).
> 2. Look up your cited sources in Google Scholar, find out what papers cite your sources, and thus find out how scientific research has advanced on the topic _since_ the source came out.

And this is completely one-sided because you guys don’t do the same on your end. For example…

> [@Tim](#):
>
> Only your first cited source makes mention of “Quantum Consciousness” (or of consciousness at all). And it explicitly states that it is **only a hypothesis**.

You clearly did not read or understood the article if you think it said that [11]:

“…Undoubtedly, the Orch-OR theory co-established by theoretical physicist Penrose and neuroscientist Hameroff is **currently the most convincing theory**. Even more exciting, with the emergence of new drugs, new research methods, and new quantum technologies, this theory is constantly being enriched and perfected. Especially in the research of anesthesiology ([96](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6861790/#r96)-[100](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6861790/#r100)), memory ([71](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6861790/#r71)), cognition ([42](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6861790/#r42),[101](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6861790/#r101)-[103](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6861790/#r103)), neural synchrony ([104](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6861790/#r104)) and vision ([49](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6861790/#r49)), **mounting results and evidence indicated the Orch-OR theory could be self-explanatory and could be invoked to many different conscious backgrounds.** More recently, Li _et al_ . found that xenon’s (one kind of anesthetic) nuclear spin could impair its own anesthetic power, which involves a neural quantum process ([105](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6861790/#r105)).” [emphasis added]

> [@Tim](#):
>
> Even if this hypothesis is confirmed, it is still a long way from providing an explanation for creation _ex nihilo_ by your _asserted_ “Universal Common Designer”.

I agree. I am not trying to use the theory to explain the entire multiverse but just life on earth.

> [@Tim](#):
>
> If this hypothesis is confirmed then _all life_ possesses “quantum consciousness”, but I have seen no evidence of any of us creating physical objects simply with our minds. This whole line of argument gets you _exactly nowhere_ .

I think your lack of expertise in quantum mind theory is showing here. So let me explain…

According to quantum physics experiments[12][13], only the conscious observer has the ability to choose which aspect of nature his knowledge will probe, which is what the results of quantum physics experiments like “quantum erasure with casually DISCONNECTED choice” demonstrate. But, I am not suggesting that the conscious observer’s ability to collapse a waveform means they can control or affect reality using their mind alone like some sort of ESP psychic power.

Instead, since the mind is supposed to be non-local under Orch-OR theory [11][11A], the observer effect results automatically becomes relevant and supportive to my overall case for God because the immaterial mind is the only true measurement apparatus that performs measurements first on the brain to simultaneous cause a collapse to the wave function.

For example, the observer must first specify or think of which particular wave-function he intends to measure and then, put in place a measuring device that will probe that aspect. Then, only the observer can recognize the answer and understand the results after he chooses between the many possible outcomes.

This is fundamentally why I believe the experimental methods I proposed to test my theory are valid.

For instance, another quantum experiment done on a mathematical theorem showed that “the values that you obtain when you measure its properties depend on the context. So the value of property A, say, depends on whether you chose to measure it with property B, or with property C. In other words, there is no reality independent of the choice of measurement.”

[Quantum magic trick shows reality is what you make it | New Scientist](https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20600-quantum-magic-trick-shows-reality-is-what-you-make-it/?ignored=irrelevant)

**In conclusion, this means that we are not purely passive observers whenever we perform an experiment but are actively affecting what the outcome will be. More importantly, you cannot separate the implications of the experiments in physics from the experiments in chemistry and biology. They all show support for the claim that life must have been created by an intelligent designer or conscious observer** [3][4][12][13].

I highly recommend that you watch this video where I got my information of quantum physics from. It illustrates both my points in a clear and concise manner for laypeople on the subject of quantum physics:

[The Measurement Problem - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qB7d5V71vUE)

> [@Tim](#):
>
> Likewise your cited source for this only states that QM is only connected to “biology through chemistry to physics”. It does not state, or imply, that life is “a non-local mathematical wave function”.

From source [9]:

"_According to the standard interpretation of quantum mechanics_, the quantum state of material particles such as electrons can be described by a wave function Ψ. …

…The appropriate wave equation for material particles is the Schrödinger equation [[5](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3768233/#R5)-[8](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3768233/#R8)] whose solution describes the behaviour of a particle in space and time (e.g. with respect to a potential barrier). **It is therefore this equation which helps to explain the quantum tunnelling phenomenon**." [emphasis added]

This leads me to address this…

> [@Tim](#):
>
> > [@Meerkat\_SK5](#):
> >
> > _Quantum Consciousness_ is the vital mechanism that causes _life_ on earth to change over time [9][10][11][11A]
> 
> **Utter, unmitigated, unsubstantiated _balderdash_ !** _None_ of your cited sources make any such claim. _None_ of them in fact link quantum consciousness to the evolution of life _in any way shape or form_ .

Although the standard Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics does _not_ require the observer to be conscious or non-local, it does not matter. Again, the Orch-OR theory and the quantum physics experiments I mentioned show that it does and ,therefore, my COMBINED sources do show a quantum consciousness being a vital mechanism for the evolution of life on earth.

> [@Tim](#):
>
> An analogy _is not_ a “line of evidence” for the simple fact (that has been repeated many times on this forum) that _analogies are not evidence_ . They are a _purely explanatory_ device, of _no probative value_ .

Right and this paper explains why this is a flawed approach to biology:  
[Should genetics get an information-theoretic education? | IEEE Journals & Magazine | IEEE Xplore](https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/1578662)

> [@Tim](#):
>
> > [@Meerkat\_SK5](#):
> >
> > (D) There is nothing in the physico-chemical world [apart from life] that resembles reactions being determined by the genetic code [5B]
> 
> This is only the opinion of a single scientist, writing 20 years ago. It is not an established fact.

Not anymore. Read this updated study:

[What is code biology? - ScienceDirect](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0303264717302952)

> [@Rumraket](#):
>
> Life _could_ have been intelligently designed and planted on some planets, _and_ have naturally evolved on others. Life _could_ have originated naturally on some planet, evolved into intelligent designers, which then went on to create life elsewhere. And all other possible combinations of history here are possible. These aren’t dichotomies.

Under replicater-first models, it has been repeatedly shown that life cannot and did not arise from classical space-time constituents because life is fundamentally digital, which is non-material. This can and has only be created and designed by conscious minds. [5][5B]

Under Metabolic-first models, it has not been experimentally demonstrated that life could have arisen from unguided material mechanisms or conditions. That being said…

> [@Rumraket](#):
>
> There’s just no principle that demands that _if_ life on Earth was intelligently designed and created, it must then be impossible for life to also originate naturally. Nor the other way around, obviously.

Yes, it is possible that future experiments may show how life could have arose from classical space-time constituents without intervention under metabolic-first scenarios. But, I acknowledged this already and explained how this actually makes my theory falsifiable. In fact, this aspect of my theory is what separates it from arguments that ID theorists propose since they mainly argue for a generic but contingent agent.

Again, Watch 8:30-13:00 and 18:00-19:30 of the Youtube video in source [14] to see what I mean.

> [@Dan\_Eastwood](#):
>
> > “Curiously enough, the only thing that went through the mind of the bowl of petunias as it fell was _Oh **no** , not again._ Many people have speculated that if we knew exactly why the bowl of petunias had thought that we would know a lot more about the nature of the Universe than we do now.”

Hey Dan, if you finally want support for the claim that God mimicks the behavior of humans based on the interplay we see between human and biochemical information, please read this article:

[Two genetic codes: Repetitive syntax for active non-coding RNAs; non-repetitive syntax for the DNA archives (nih.gov)](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5398208/)

> [@Spinosaurus-729](#):
>
> Physics student here. Your part on “quantum consciousness” is just plain wrong. Deepak Chopra level stuff.

How so? you need to elaborate in a way that I can respond adequately

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Tim](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/tim/32/9381_2.png) [@Tim](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/Tim)\
**Post date:** [September 1, 2021, 4:58pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/universal-common-designer-theory-updated-and-revised/14182/19 "2021-09-01T16:58:21Z")

</div>

> [@Meerkat\_SK5](#):
>
> > [@Tim](#):
> >
> > This is further rendered even more problematical by the fact that you tend to use _outdated_ sources (most notably your continuing obsession with the opinions of the _late_ Dr **Yockey** ), rather than look at the _full context_ of _on-going_ research into the areas you are touching upon.
> 
> What’s considered an outdated source according to everybody on PS?

I already included the most notable example in my above parenthetical. Another that I have previously mentioned would be Vasas _et al_.

> [@Meerkat\_SK5](#):
>
> And this is completely one-sided because you guys don’t do the same on your end. For example…

O poor persecuted @Meerkat_SK5.

1. A [_tu quoque_](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque) fallacy is a _lousy argument._

2. Your quote remains nothing more than the _opinion_ of a quartet of researchers. It establishes Orch-OR as neither fact _nor_ the scientific consensus.

3. Even a quick skim of even the Wikipedia article on [Orchestrated Objective Reduction](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orchestrated_objective_reduction) sees it prominently listed as **“a controversial hypothesis”** , with a whole bunch of physicists and neuroscientists cited as criticising it as a poor model of brain physiology.

4. Beyond this, your sources **abjectly fail** to link this controversial hypothesis to evolution.

So again I say, **Utter, unmitigated, unsubstantiated _balderdash_ !**

> [@Meerkat\_SK5](#):
>
> > [@Tim](#):
> >
> > Even if this hypothesis is confirmed, it is still a long way from providing an explanation for creation _ex nihilo_ by your _asserted_ “Universal Common Designer”.
> 
> I agree. I am not trying to use the theory to explain the entire multiverse but just life on earth.

And it is no more an explanation of the creation of “life on earth” _ex nihilo_ than it is an explanation of “the entire multiverse” _ex nihilo_.

_Even if Orch-OR is confirmed_, it would still leave _only human minds_ as the only _known_ example of Quantum Consciousness. There is no reliable evidence (in spite of decades of parapsychological research) of human minds being able to affect things remotely through the power of the mind alone (e.g. by conscious control of non-localised quantum effects). Therefore there is **no established mechanism for Quantum Consciousness to affect evolution.**

You are, _again_, exactly nowhere.

> [@Meerkat\_SK5](#):
>
> I think your lack of expertise in quantum mind theory is showing here.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

So tell me, @Meerkat_SK5, _on what basis_ are **you** claiming “expertise in quantum mind theory”?

> [@Meerkat\_SK5](#):
>
> So let me explain…
> 
> According to quantum physics experiments[12][13], only the conscious observer has the ability to choose which aspect of nature his knowledge will probe …

More balderdash. _Neither_ of these cited sources makes any mention of “mind”, “conscious observer” or anything similar.

Your _New Scientist_ quote likewise in no way supports your claims.

> [@Meerkat\_SK5](#):
>
> **In conclusion, this means that we are not purely passive observers whenever we perform an experiment but are actively affecting what the outcome will be. More importantly, you cannot separate the implications of the experiments in physics from the experiments in chemistry and biology. They all show support for the claim that life must have been created by an intelligent designer or conscious observer** [3][4][12][13].

More utter balderdash, completely unsupported by your cited sources.

> [@Meerkat\_SK5](#):
>
> I highly recommend that you watch this video …

I in turn “highly recommend that” you avoid recommending Youtube videos by apologists as a serious source of scientific information in the future. The only qualification for being an apologist would appear to be the ability to spew bad argument with utter confidence – a skill that hardly adds to their credibility.

> [@Meerkat\_SK5](#):
>
> From source [9]: …

The crucial part of this quote is **“can be described by”**. _Description is not identity_. If I _describe_ you in an article, that does not mean that this description _is_ you.

Again, it does not state, or imply, that life is “a non-local mathematical wave function”.

> [@Meerkat\_SK5](#):
>
> Again, the Orch-OR theory and the quantum physics experiments I mentioned show that it does and ,therefore, my COMBINED sources do show a quantum consciousness being a vital mechanism for the evolution of life on earth.

_Again_, they show _no such thing_.

> [@Meerkat\_SK5](#):
>
> > [@Tim](#):
> >
> > An analogy _is not_ a “line of evidence” for the simple fact (that has been repeated many times on this forum) that _analogies are not evidence_ . They are a _purely explanatory_ device, of _no probative value_ .
> 
> Right and this paper explains why this is a flawed approach to biology:  
> [Should genetics get an information-theoretic education? | IEEE Journals & Magazine | IEEE Xplore](https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/1578662)

It is completely opaque _what_ you mean by “this” in this context (in fact it is highly questionable even _if_ you even have a coherent meaning for it).

This source does _absolutely nothing_ to contradict my point that **analogies are not evidence** , so your analogy _still_ has _exactly zero evidentiary value_.

> [@Meerkat\_SK5](#):
>
> > [@Tim](#):
> >
> > This is only the opinion of a single scientist, writing 20 years ago. It is not an established fact.
> 
> Not anymore. Read this updated study:
> 
> [What is code biology? - ScienceDirect](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0303264717302952)

Wrong, _wrong_ and **wrong**. It is _not_ a “study”, it is _not_ an ‘update’ of Yockey’s work (and in fact makes no mention of his work) and does not appear to make the claim that “There is nothing in the physico-chemical world [apart from life] that resembles reactions being determined by the genetic code”.

I’d say that you were “throwing everything at the wall and seeing what sticks”, but given your abysmally low success rate, it would seem more accurate to state that you’re “throwing everything at _a Teflon-coated_ wall and seeing _that nothing_ sticks”.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![John\_Harshman](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/john_harshman/32/1121_2.png) [@John\_Harshman](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/John_Harshman)\
**Post date:** [September 1, 2021, 4:58pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/universal-common-designer-theory-updated-and-revised/14182/20 "2021-09-01T16:58:28Z")

</div>

> [@Meerkat\_SK5](#):
>
> If this is not the case, then nevermind.

It is not the case. Consider that you may want to stop making claims about things you don’t know about. It’s also confused, as you claimed to be listing basic types, not large groups of basic types. And again, why would there even be such things as groups of basic types?

> [@Meerkat\_SK5](#):
>
> Well, it depends on which “why” question you are referring to.

No, it doesn’t. You are confusing mere similarity with nested hierarchy, which you should not do. Everything you say about evolution is word salad.

[Next page](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/universal-common-designer-theory-updated-and-revised/14182.md?page=2)