William Lane Craig on Historical Adam


(Dr. Patrick Trischitta) #64


(Guy Coe) #65

I doubt that such statistics exist, and can only speak from experience.
I do suspect there’s a difference in what gets expressed in academic versus non-academic environments. I have found most atheists to take a diplomatic tack to this question, including the playful occasional “fuhgedaboudit.” It is a fascinating topic for discussion, but not exactly on-topic.
As long as the exploration is made good heartedly, with the attempt to understand better, I can’t see how it falls short of trying to “love my neighbor.” Christians and others from all faith positions take diplomatic tacks to these potentially divisive “labeling” issues, too.

(Neil Rickert) #66

I haven’t been keeping count. But just about all of the atheists that I know and read say that they lack a belief in gods. Many say that there is no evidence of gods. I am unable to think of any who says that there is no god.


Indeed, even Dawkins usually makes sure to say ‘there probably is no God’,

(Dr. Patrick Trischitta) #68

(Guy Coe) #69

And yet, no one challenges him to produce his statistical calculations for claiming that as a “probability.”
Is he simply practicing a polite diplomacy when he speaks thusly in public, or does he have other forms of proof to back up such an assertion?
I do know he was one of two featured debate opponents in a DVD I own, entitled “There is no God.” Haven’t watched it in a while.


Huh, cute, I’m a 2.

(Dr. Patrick Trischitta) #71

What can change your mind?


Hell if I know.

(Guy Coe) #73

The Guardian, that bastion of conservative Christian values (NOT) explores the topic, somewhat uncharitably, here. Seems there’s plenty of “nastiness” to go around, depending on peoples’ perspectives.
I share this, not by way of endorsement, but for purposes of comparison to the attitudes and, by contrast, only mild invective in view here on the forum.

(John Mercer) #74

Why are you asking me???


I… don’t know, I’ve never actually seen you write about your beliefs. I don’t know why I just assumed.

I apologize if I offended you.

(Mikkel R.) #76

Depending on the particular brand of God, I’m somewhere between 5 and 7 on that scale. Though I don’t believe absolute 100% certainty (in anything other than an emotional sense) is possible for anything other than that I exist (I think - therefore I am).

For most mainstream christian denominations, I’m a 6 on that scale, for the more nebulous deistic-ish versions, I’m a 5, for the more ludicrous versions with literal talking snakes, parting seas, and rivers turning to blood, Norse and Greek mythology, new-age religions, Scientology, Mormonism and so on, I’m (say) 1% away from a 7.

(John Harshman) #77

Isn’t claiming to know that God exists also, by that reasoning, a deadening of wonder? Isn’t, in fact, claiming to know any fact whatsoever a similar deadining? Still not understanding the reasoning.

(John Harshman) #78

I believe Dawkins puts himself at 6.9 or thereabouts, and I would concur. Customary scientific caution; there is no such thing as P=0. You can’t get to certainty when your wonder is deadened.

(John Mercer) #79

Thanks, it was offensive. I accept your apology.

(John Mercer) #80

What’s stronger than the wondering that inspires one to dedicate a career to learning about the wonders of biology?

(Guy Coe) #81

Lots of things, like raising a special needs child, or loving your lifelong spouse, or “loving God with all your heart, soul, and mind.”
Kudos to you for having a good and driving passion, but I’ll bet that, even to you, it’s not your dearest passion.

(Retired Professor & Minister.) #82

You are changing the goals posts, Guy. Your original claim was that atheists lack a sense of wonder. Now you are replacing that with “dearest passions” associated with doing good. And why are you trying to relegate atheists to a strata below your own?

(Guy Coe) #83

No, because it doesn’t “greatly reduce the possibilities.”