# William Lane Craig’s new book on Adam and Eve given semi-laudatory review—in

**URL:** <https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/william-lane-craig-s-new-book-on-adam-and-eve-given-semi-laudatory-review-in/14359>\
**Category:** Conversation\
**Tags:** Society\
**Created:** [October 9, 2021, 2:20pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/william-lane-craig-s-new-book-on-adam-and-eve-given-semi-laudatory-review-in/14359 "2021-10-09T14:20:07Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![Patrick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b2d939/32.png) [@Patrick](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/Patrick)\
**Post date:** [October 9, 2021, 2:20pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/william-lane-craig-s-new-book-on-adam-and-eve-given-semi-laudatory-review-in/14359/1 "2021-10-09T14:20:07Z")

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> **[William Lane Craig’s new book on Adam and Eve given semi-laudatory review—in...](https://whyevolutionistrue.com/2021/10/08/william-lane-craigs-new-book-on-adam-and-eve-given-semi-laudatory-review-in-science/)**
>
> This is one of the most bizarre book reviews I’ve read in Science (or Nature). It’s a long (a full page) review of theologian William Lane Craig’s new book on Adam and Eve, suppos…

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**Author:** ![John\_Harshman](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/john_harshman/32/1121_2.png) [@John\_Harshman](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/John_Harshman)\
**Post date:** [October 9, 2021, 4:23pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/william-lane-craig-s-new-book-on-adam-and-eve-given-semi-laudatory-review-in/14359/2 "2021-10-09T16:23:26Z")

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A couple of points in the review cry out for explanation:

1. Why, if Craig concludes that Genesis 2 is mythical, does Paul’s reference to that story then become historical?

2. Why does Craig need a bottleneck at all? Granted that there is some particular mutation needed for full humanness, why can’t Adam just be part of a large population, into which this humanness allele just diffuses and eventually becomes fixed in the ordinary way?

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**Author:** ![deuteroKJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/46a35a/32.png) [@deuteroKJ](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/deuteroKJ)\
**Post date:** [October 9, 2021, 9:50pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/william-lane-craig-s-new-book-on-adam-and-eve-given-semi-laudatory-review-in/14359/3 "2021-10-09T21:50:28Z")

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> [@John\_Harshman](#):
>
> Craig concludes that Genesis 2 is mythical

Craig’s actual genre designation is mytho-history, with the “myth” part not defined as the opposite of history, though it does qualify the type of historical precision expected. (So, you’re right, it definitely needs explanation.) I haven’t read the book yet to know how Craig argues “historical” from Romans 5. (In some online convos and interviews I’ve seen, the argument for an historical figure includes NT texts but also theological reasoning.)

> [@John\_Harshman](#):
>
> why can’t Adam just be part of a large population

As I understand his position (and if I understand the heart of your concern), one of Craig’s biblical-theological non-negotiables is that A&E are the sole progenitors of every “human” who’s ever lived. This is where his GAE model differs from that of @swamidass (including a different understanding of human and divine imageness).

BTW, I’ll be part of a panel at Southeastern Seminary at a conference in the Spring reviewing a new four-views book on Adam, with Craig as one of the main authors. I’ll be jotting down any questions/concerns on this thread to incorporate in my review.

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**Author:** ![swamidass](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/swamidass/32/3_2.png) [@swamidass](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/swamidass)\
**Post date:** [October 9, 2021, 11:33pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/william-lane-craig-s-new-book-on-adam-and-eve-given-semi-laudatory-review-in/14359/4 "2021-10-09T23:33:47Z")

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> [@deuteroKJ](#):
>
> , one of Craig’s biblical-theological non-negotiables is that A&E are the sole progenitors of every “human” who’s ever lived.

Sole progenitors of “humanness”, allowing for interbreeding between AEs lineage and others.

Using different definitions of “human”, the GAE does the same thing, without having AE as the headwaters of humanness.

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**Author:** ![Puck\_Mendelssohn](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/puck_mendelssohn/32/11849_2.png) [@Puck\_Mendelssohn](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/Puck_Mendelssohn)\
**Post date:** [October 10, 2021, 12:29am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/william-lane-craig-s-new-book-on-adam-and-eve-given-semi-laudatory-review-in/14359/5 "2021-10-10T00:29:02Z")

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Excellent take on it, I think, by Coyne. I really have no idea why _Science_ would take any interest in anything Craig has to say. It’s obvious that while science might inform theological views, theological views can in no way inform science.

By the way, the review is ALSO excellent. I recognize that Shaffner and Coyne are in partial disagreement here but it’s an excellent review.

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**Author:** ![swamidass](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/swamidass/32/3_2.png) [@swamidass](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/swamidass)\
**Post date:** [October 10, 2021, 1:29am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/william-lane-craig-s-new-book-on-adam-and-eve-given-semi-laudatory-review-in/14359/6 "2021-10-10T01:29:12Z")

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This article by Coyne isn’t a review. He hasn’t read the book, and it seems he is deeply confused on its core claims. So it’s really just a snap reaction to hearsay about a book.

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**Author:** ![swamidass](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/swamidass/32/3_2.png) [@swamidass](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/swamidass)\
**Post date:** [October 10, 2021, 1:31am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/william-lane-craig-s-new-book-on-adam-and-eve-given-semi-laudatory-review-in/14359/7 "2021-10-10T01:31:15Z")

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> [@deuteroKJ](#):
>
> I haven’t read the book yet to know how Craig argues “historical” from Romans 5. (In some online convos and interviews I’ve seen, the argument for an historical figure includes NT texts but also theological reasoning.)

@glipsnort did not accurately characterize the hermeneutical argument in that point. He didnt have much space, though. So maybe that’s why, but Craig’s argument is notable for largely sidestepping Romans 5.

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**Author:** ![Puck\_Mendelssohn](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/puck_mendelssohn/32/11849_2.png) [@Puck\_Mendelssohn](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/Puck_Mendelssohn)\
**Post date:** [October 10, 2021, 1:53am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/william-lane-craig-s-new-book-on-adam-and-eve-given-semi-laudatory-review-in/14359/8 "2021-10-10T01:53:12Z")

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> [@swamidass](#):
>
> This article by Coyne isn’t a review.

True, and I didn’t call Coyne’s reaction a review. But he is on point, I think: Craig’s attempt to provide some reconciliation between science and the text is not worthy of the attention of _Science._ Once one has established – and the GAE certainly does this – that readings of the story exist which render the proposition non-testable and non-scientific, and hence evasive of any meaningful scrutiny, Adam and Eve can be of no use to science at all.

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**Author:** ![John\_Harshman](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/john_harshman/32/1121_2.png) [@John\_Harshman](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/John_Harshman)\
**Post date:** [October 10, 2021, 1:53am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/william-lane-craig-s-new-book-on-adam-and-eve-given-semi-laudatory-review-in/14359/9 "2021-10-10T01:53:20Z")

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> [@deuteroKJ](#):
>
> As I understand his position (and if I understand the heart of your concern), one of Craig’s biblical-theological non-negotiables is that A&E are the sole progenitors of every “human” who’s ever lived.

As I have learned here, “sole progenitors” doesn’t necessarily mean what it sounds like. Even “sole genetic progenitors” seems not to mean what it sounds like. Of course if there’s interbreeding with other populations, even thousands of years later, these sole progenitors are not in fact sole progenitors. The terminology is a mess that serves to muddy his position. I’m curious why he needs to make this claim, however hedged and vague it is.

> [@swamidass](#):
>
> Sole progenitors of “humanness”, allowing for interbreeding between AEs lineage and others.

So what he’s talking about could be as little as a single allele at a single locus? And Adam could indeed be one member of a much larger population?

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**Author:** ![swamidass](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/swamidass/32/3_2.png) [@swamidass](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/swamidass)\
**Post date:** [October 10, 2021, 1:54am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/william-lane-craig-s-new-book-on-adam-and-eve-given-semi-laudatory-review-in/14359/10 "2021-10-10T01:54:41Z")

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No that’s not what he proposes. It’s a \>500 page book. If you’ve been paying attention here, you’ll know the scientific key points already.

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**Author:** ![Puck\_Mendelssohn](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/puck_mendelssohn/32/11849_2.png) [@Puck\_Mendelssohn](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/Puck_Mendelssohn)\
**Post date:** [October 10, 2021, 4:38am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/william-lane-craig-s-new-book-on-adam-and-eve-given-semi-laudatory-review-in/14359/11 "2021-10-10T04:38:53Z")

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> [@John\_Harshman](#):
>
> Even “sole genetic progenitors” seems not to mean what it sounds like.

My proposal that the users of that confusing term shift to saying “bole benetic brogenitors” fell upon deaf ears, or, as I call them, “beaf beers.”

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**Author:** ![John\_Harshman](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/john_harshman/32/1121_2.png) [@John\_Harshman](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/John_Harshman)\
**Post date:** [October 10, 2021, 4:38am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/william-lane-craig-s-new-book-on-adam-and-eve-given-semi-laudatory-review-in/14359/12 "2021-10-10T04:38:55Z")

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It’s quite characteristic of you to say what something isn’t without providing any information on what it is, or even any sort of link or hint. Is there something in your childhood to account for that? It’s most annoying, and I encourage you to resist this tendency.

So, what is the correct understanding?

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**Author:** ![swamidass](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/swamidass/32/3_2.png) [@swamidass](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/swamidass)\
**Post date:** [October 10, 2021, 4:39am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/william-lane-craig-s-new-book-on-adam-and-eve-given-semi-laudatory-review-in/14359/13 "2021-10-10T04:39:35Z")

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Life is busy and I get tired of repeating myself.

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**Author:** ![Patrick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b2d939/32.png) [@Patrick](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/Patrick)\
**Post date:** [October 10, 2021, 4:34pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/william-lane-craig-s-new-book-on-adam-and-eve-given-semi-laudatory-review-in/14359/14 "2021-10-10T16:34:06Z")

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Homo Erectus was fully human with language and culture. It is time to give credit where credit is due. Homo Erectus invented language and made itself human. The real Adams and Eves were the worldwide Homo Erectus people who were the most advanced creatures the world had ever seen.

[How language began | Dan Everett | TEDxSanFrancisco - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFxg5vkaPgk)

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**Author:** ![John\_Harshman](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/john_harshman/32/1121_2.png) [@John\_Harshman](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/John_Harshman)\
**Post date:** [October 10, 2021, 4:34pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/william-lane-craig-s-new-book-on-adam-and-eve-given-semi-laudatory-review-in/14359/15 "2021-10-10T16:34:10Z")

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Just a simple link to where you said it the first time would be sufficient.

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**Author:** ![Michael\_Okoko](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/michael_okoko/32/13148_2.png) [@Michael\_Okoko](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/Michael_Okoko)\
**Post date:** [October 10, 2021, 4:34pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/william-lane-craig-s-new-book-on-adam-and-eve-given-semi-laudatory-review-in/14359/16 "2021-10-10T16:34:17Z")

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> [@Puck\_Mendelssohn](#):
>
> Excellent take on it, I think, by Coyne. I really have no idea why _Science_ would take any interest in anything Craig has to say.

I find this odd too. There are lots of scientific issues that could have been discussed on that space, but they gave it to a review on a theological subject no one has any means of ever understanding or figuring out… unless God himself clarifies.

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**Author:** ![Tim](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/tim/32/9381_2.png) [@Tim](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/Tim)\
**Post date:** [October 10, 2021, 4:34pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/william-lane-craig-s-new-book-on-adam-and-eve-given-semi-laudatory-review-in/14359/17 "2021-10-10T16:34:23Z")

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Joshua, if you are " tired of repeating [your]self", may I suggest that this condition is largely self-inflicted.

As I [previously pointed out](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/comments-on-the-confusion-between-rtb-and-bl/14061/42):

> Yes, it is possible to _redefine_ words to mean something other than their consensus meaning, but then **you must perforce accept all responsibility for any misunderstanding and confusion that this redefinition entails.** You must also accept the high probability that others will continue to use the word in its consensus meaning, and that you will lack any power or authority to enforce your own idiosyncratic meaning.

Where people _insist_ on using “sole” in this _idiosyncratic_ manner, and on making [cryptic comments](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/william-lane-craig-s-new-book-on-adam-and-eve-given-semi-laudatory-review-in/14359/10) (rather than waiting until they have time to be more forthcoming), then I suggest that they bear the responsibility for dealing with the consequences of their own poor communication.

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**Author:** ![swamidass](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/swamidass/32/3_2.png) [@swamidass](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/swamidass)\
**Post date:** [October 10, 2021, 6:13pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/william-lane-craig-s-new-book-on-adam-and-eve-given-semi-laudatory-review-in/14359/18 "2021-10-10T18:13:22Z")

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Well, at this point, we can just read WLCs book for ourselves!

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**Author:** ![Puck\_Mendelssohn](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/puck_mendelssohn/32/11849_2.png) [@Puck\_Mendelssohn](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/Puck_Mendelssohn)\
**Post date:** [October 10, 2021, 6:40pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/william-lane-craig-s-new-book-on-adam-and-eve-given-semi-laudatory-review-in/14359/19 "2021-10-10T18:40:07Z")

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We could, indeed, though that does nothing to resolve the point. And I would not wish a WLC book upon any otherwise innocent person.

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**Author:** ![dga471](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/dga471/32/5233_2.png) [@dga471](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/dga471)\
**Post date:** [October 11, 2021, 8:28pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/william-lane-craig-s-new-book-on-adam-and-eve-given-semi-laudatory-review-in/14359/20 "2021-10-11T20:28:23Z")

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2 posts were split to a new topic: [Comments on William Lane Craig](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/comments-on-william-lane-craig/14374)

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