# YEC Predictions on Dino Soft Tissue? **URL:** \ **Category:** Conversation\ **Tags:** Science, Philosophy, History\ **Created:** [April 25, 2020, 10:27pm UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/yec-predictions-on-dino-soft-tissue/10322 "2020-04-25T22:27:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2

**Author:** ![PDPrice](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/pdprice/32/6024_2.png) [@PDPrice](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/PDPrice)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2020, 1:55am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/yec-predictions-on-dino-soft-tissue/10322/22 "2020-04-26T01:55:19Z")

Sure, here’s one for starters: > **[Biomolecules in fossil remains: Multidisciplinary approach to endurance](https://portlandpress.com/biochemist/article/24/3/12/814/Biomolecules-in-fossil-remains-Multidisciplinary)** > > Svante Pääbo, a leading pioneer in the study of ancient DNA, eloquently described the recovery of genetic information from the fossil record as a 21st Century form of genetic time travel1. The advent of PCR made possible the amplification of small... ---

**Author:** ![sfmatheson](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/sfmatheson/32/22811_2.png) [@sfmatheson](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/sfmatheson)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2020, 2:12am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/yec-predictions-on-dino-soft-tissue/10322/23 "2020-04-26T02:12:10Z")

> [@PDPrice](#): > > Prior to the 1990’s when soft, pliable tissue began to be reported in supposedly ancient dinosaur bones (now such findings have proliferated immensely), would evolutionists have ever predicted such a find? Probably not, but I don’t know. > [@PDPrice](#): > > Would such a find square with what would be expected in an evolutionary worldview? Sure. The “evolutionary worldview” doesn’t exist, but science does, specifically chemistry, and we have a [strong chemical explanation](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-018-07013-3) for how this can happen. > [@PDPrice](#): > > would such a find be predicted in a young earth creationist worldview, where dinosaurs died out only hundreds, rather than millions of years ago? I doubt it. The YEC person would have to explain what they predicted and how that matched the findings. ---

**Author:** ![PDPrice](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/pdprice/32/6024_2.png) [@PDPrice](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/PDPrice)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2020, 2:12am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/yec-predictions-on-dino-soft-tissue/10322/24 "2020-04-26T02:12:19Z")

> [@gbrooks9](#): > > If dinosaurs were alive before the flood… then there should be tons of dinosaur meat along with mammoth meat … all about 4000 years old. Where are you getting this idea from? The meat did not come from the Flood. The Mammoth meat is post-Flood, and was not from the fossil record. I can think of no reason why creationists would expect to find dinosaur meat anywhere. ---

**Author:** ![gbrooks9](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/gbrooks9/32/7979_2.png) [@gbrooks9](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/gbrooks9)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2020, 2:37am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/yec-predictions-on-dino-soft-tissue/10322/25 "2020-04-26T02:37:07Z")

> [@PDPrice](#): > > Where are you getting this idea from? The meat did not come from the Flood. The Mammoth meat is post-Flood, and was not from the fossil record. I can think of no reason why creationists would expect to find dinosaur meat anywhere. @PDPrice So you reject radiocarbon results for mammoths? ---

**Author:** ![T.j\_Runyon](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/t.j_runyon/32/9662_2.png) [@T.j\_Runyon](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/T.j_Runyon)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2020, 2:37am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/yec-predictions-on-dino-soft-tissue/10322/27 "2020-04-26T02:37:24Z")

> [@PDPrice](#): > > would evolutionists have ever predicted such a find It has absolutely nothing to do with evolutionary biology ---

**Author:** ![PDPrice](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/pdprice/32/6024_2.png) [@PDPrice](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/PDPrice)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2020, 2:43am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/yec-predictions-on-dino-soft-tissue/10322/28 "2020-04-26T02:43:48Z")

> [@gbrooks9](#): > > So you reject radiocarbon results for mammoths? Yes I do. I reject radiometric dating as a [reliable method](https://creation.com/the-way-it-really-is-little-known-facts-about-radiometric-dating) altogether. In fact, dinosaur soft tissue remains are an independent falsification of radiometric dating techniques. ---

**Author:** ![PDPrice](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/pdprice/32/6024_2.png) [@PDPrice](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/PDPrice)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2020, 2:50am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/yec-predictions-on-dino-soft-tissue/10322/29 "2020-04-26T02:50:01Z")

> [@sfmatheson](#): > > we have a [strong chemical explanation](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-018-07013-3) for how this can happen. That claim has been addressed: > **[Do Maillard Reactions Explain Dinosaur Proteins?](https://www.icr.org/article/maillard-reactions-explain-dinosaur-proteins)** > > How could dinosaur proteins persist over 70 million years inside dinosaur bones? That’s one of the biggest questions that secular paleontologists have faced in the last two decades. Many of them reason that some unique but undiscovered set of... ---

**Author:** ![T.j\_Runyon](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/t.j_runyon/32/9662_2.png) [@T.j\_Runyon](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/T.j_Runyon)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2020, 3:29am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/yec-predictions-on-dino-soft-tissue/10322/30 "2020-04-26T03:29:31Z")

> [@PDPrice](#): > > Dinosaurs were reptiles that probably stayed as far away as possible from cold climates. Some, like some species of hadrosaur, Did live in cold and snowy environments. ---

**Author:** ![T.j\_Runyon](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/t.j_runyon/32/9662_2.png) [@T.j\_Runyon](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/T.j_Runyon)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2020, 3:29am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/yec-predictions-on-dino-soft-tissue/10322/31 "2020-04-26T03:29:42Z")

> [@PDPrice](#): > > In fact, dinosaur soft tissue remains are an independent falsification of radiometric dating techniques. Or maybe all the independent verifications of these old ages show that soft tissue can last longer than we thought and we still have more to understand. Why does your one data point outweigh all the others? ---

**Author:** ![John\_Harshman](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/john_harshman/32/1121_2.png) [@John\_Harshman](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/John_Harshman)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2020, 3:29am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/yec-predictions-on-dino-soft-tissue/10322/32 "2020-04-26T03:29:51Z")

> [@PDPrice](#): > > On the other hand, would such a find be predicted in a young earth creationist worldview, where dinosaurs died out only hundreds, rather than millions of years ago? Sorry, it only counts as a prediction if creationists actually predicted it. Just saying, after the fact, that you would have predicted it doesn’t do it. Did any creationist actually predict it? ---

**Author:** ![Timothy\_Horton](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/timothy_horton/32/9410_2.png) [@Timothy\_Horton](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/Timothy_Horton)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2020, 3:46am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/yec-predictions-on-dino-soft-tissue/10322/33 "2020-04-26T03:46:00Z")

> [@PDPrice](#): > > Prior to the 1990’s when soft, pliable tissue began to be reported in supposedly ancient dinosaur bones (now such findings have proliferated immensely), would evolutionists have ever predicted such a find? It wasn’t predicted because at the time there was no known mechanism for the long time preservation of biomolecules. > [@](#): > > On the other hand, would such a find be predicted in a young earth creationist worldview, where dinosaurs died out only hundreds, rather than millions of years ago No because it WASN’T predicted by any YEC anywhere. No YECs ever went out looking for preserved biomolecules in dino fossils. YECs were just as surprised as paleontologists. ---

> [@PDPrice](#): > > Yes I do. I reject radiometric dating as a [reliable method](https://creation.com/the-way-it-really-is-little-known-facts-about-radiometric-dating) altogether. In fact, dinosaur soft tissue remains are an independent falsification of radiometric dating techniques. No, they are not. All they show is there are preservation methods we didn’t know of before. The findings don’t cast any doubt on other proven dating methods at all. Do you reject C14 dating? C14 dating is cross-calibrated by at least a dozen independent dating methods back to 50,000 YBP. All those independent measurements confirming the same dates is pretty hard to hand wave away, yes? ---

**Author:** ![swamidass](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/swamidass/32/3_2.png) [@swamidass](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/swamidass)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2020, 3:51am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/yec-predictions-on-dino-soft-tissue/10322/35 "2020-04-26T03:51:42Z")

I think radiodating seems off topic, right? I for one have very curious how @PDPrice would rationalize [Lake Varves, Volcanic Ash, and the Great Isaiah Scroll](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/lake-varves-volcanic-ash-and-the-great-isaiah-scroll/554). This doesn’t have a good YEC answer and seems to definitively show that the earth, at the very least, looks old. However, that might be better for a new thread I suppose. ---

**Author:** ![PDPrice](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/pdprice/32/6024_2.png) [@PDPrice](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/PDPrice)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2020, 3:54am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/yec-predictions-on-dino-soft-tissue/10322/36 "2020-04-26T03:54:07Z")

> [@John\_Harshman](#): > > Sorry, it only counts as a prediction if creationists actually predicted it. Just saying, after the fact, that you would have predicted it doesn’t do it. Did any creationist actually predict it? That’s wrong, and I specifically addressed that in the post. Whether or not somebody happened to record a prediction is irrelevant to the philosophical question of “what would be predicted”, given one view over another. A guy could be about to predict something and then get hit by a bus. That doesn’t change science or philosophy. ---

**Author:** ![PDPrice](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/pdprice/32/6024_2.png) [@PDPrice](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/PDPrice)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2020, 3:55am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/yec-predictions-on-dino-soft-tissue/10322/37 "2020-04-26T03:55:58Z")

> [@swamidass](#): > > This doesn’t have a good YEC answer and seems to definitively show that the earth, at the very least, looks old. Have you read the book Rock Solid Answers? I quote from it in this article: [https://creation.com/joggins](https://creation.com/joggins) I know varves are addressed there, but I need to do some more study before I’m going to comment on varves myself. ---

**Author:** ![swamidass](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/swamidass/32/3_2.png) [@swamidass](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/swamidass)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2020, 3:56am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/yec-predictions-on-dino-soft-tissue/10322/38 "2020-04-26T03:56:26Z")

Start with the link I gave you above, and the links within to @davidson and @Joel_Duff’s excellent work. ---

**Author:** ![PDPrice](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/pdprice/32/6024_2.png) [@PDPrice](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/PDPrice)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2020, 3:57am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/yec-predictions-on-dino-soft-tissue/10322/39 "2020-04-26T03:57:05Z")

> [@T.j\_Runyon](#): > > Some, like some species of hadrosaur, Did live in cold and snowy environments. Just as cold and just as snowy as mammoths? I know mammoths are built for the cold because they had thick coats. Hadrosaurs were reptiles with scales. I am highly skeptical that you would find one in the same place as a mammoth. ---

**Author:** ![PDPrice](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/pdprice/32/6024_2.png) [@PDPrice](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/PDPrice)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2020, 3:58am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/yec-predictions-on-dino-soft-tissue/10322/40 "2020-04-26T03:58:39Z")

> [@T.j\_Runyon](#): > > Why does your one data point outweigh all the others? It’s called falsification. A million tests cannot prove me right, but a single test can prove me wrong. ---

**Author:** ![swamidass](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/swamidass/32/3_2.png) [@swamidass](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/swamidass)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2020, 3:59am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/yec-predictions-on-dino-soft-tissue/10322/41 "2020-04-26T03:59:34Z")

@PDPrice, that is not how science works. We can also produce a million tests that you cannot explain. They really seem to show you wrong. What you are doing here is called cherrypicking. ---

**Author:** ![Timothy\_Horton](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.peacefulscience.org/timothy_horton/32/9410_2.png) [@Timothy\_Horton](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/u/Timothy_Horton)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2020, 3:59am UTC](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/yec-predictions-on-dino-soft-tissue/10322/42 "2020-04-26T03:59:46Z")

> [@PDPrice](#): > > Whether or not somebody happened to record a prediction is irrelevant to the philosophical question of “what would be predicted”, given one view over another. If you’re going to play “coulda woulda shoulda” then YECs _philosophically_ would predict all fossils should date to the same age and all should contain large amounts of fresh meat. But that obviously is completely wrong. [Previous page](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/yec-predictions-on-dino-soft-tissue/10322.md?page=1) [Next page](https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/yec-predictions-on-dino-soft-tissue/10322.md?page=3)