About Thomas Nagel

Wow! Fantastic! I can envision all of the students dressed like Batman. I’m awed by their connection! Your daughter is really lucky to have a teacher that is passionate about teaching as well as a warm and welcoming environment. What memories they’ll have. It’s pleasing to hear that they appreciate learning.

TBH, I’m not sure how fond their memories are of their high school. But I was impressed and pleased that they were reading primary sources in their philosophy class (Never mind having a philosophy class in the first place.)

Agree rm124 is not dominant. Given the 3500 years of intermarriage that is expected. That would also explain mirazi having common genes with Ashkenazi. I understand though that Ashkenazi and shepardic were the two ancient groups. The question is how does the rm124 found in india dominantly enter the Ashkenazi pool. My hypothesis is that this comes from exodus from india.

A better explanation, given that M124 is less rare among Mizrahi than Ashkenazi, and that Mizrahi inhabited areas with heightened M124, is that the Mizrahi gained the gene, after splitting from the Ashkenazi, via intermarriage in West Asia. This explanation is supported by the fact that M124 is considerably more common among the (non-Ashkenazi) general Jewish population than among the priesthood (“Cohanim”) – the latter being less likely to intermarry:

The distribution of haplogroup frequencies for all haplogroups present in Ashkenazi and non-Ashkenazi Israelites (top) and Cohanim (bottom) at a frequency >5%. The following haplogroups are not shown: C-M216, E-M96, E-P2, E-M81, F-P14, I-M170, I-P37.2, I-M223, I-M253, J-M304, L-M20, N-M231, Q-M242, R-M173 [1]

Given that we have no evidence that M124 “dominantly enter[ed] the Ashkenazi pool” in the first place, this would seem to be an absurd question.

Do you have any evidence for this hypothesis?


They are only “ancient” to the extent that they both date back to the Jewish diaspora, and Ashkenazi and Sephardi are not the only groups – Mizrahi Jews are a separate group:


It is likely in fact that Mizrahi, as they would likely include some descendants of the Assyrian exile and the Babylonian captivity, are the older population (giving more time for local admixture).


  • Can you explain what you mean by “never mind having a philosophy class”? I’m confused by your “never mind” after claiming to be pleased; can you help me understand?

  • How were Thomas Nagel’s theories included into the high school curriculum?

I mean that I was surprised enough by the very fact they offered a philosophy class, never mind one in which they read primary sources rather than going thru “Sophie’s World” or some other book that talks about what the primary sources say. But this was a school that also taught Latin and Ancient Greek, that kind of place. Like I say, I think we parents were more happy with the choice than our kids were…

I don’t really know in detail. But the “bat” paper is something of a modern classic, I believe, so it is not surprising that they covered it.

BTW, if you are interested in Philosophy of Mind, I highly recommend this book. It compiles a number of classic writings on the subject (including Nagel) along with commentary from Daniel Dennett and Douglas Hofstadter.

The Mind’s I: Fantasies And Reflections On Self & Soul: Hofstadter, Douglas R, Dennett, Daniel C.: 9780465030910: Amazon.com: Books

I was about to suggest that a high school class that studied the bat paper probably would have got it from that book.

Yes they are a separate (and very small) group today. But the ancient groups are Shepardic and Ashkenazi. Further, we are talking of R-M124 not M124, please.

You keep saying this, but you provide no evidence for this claim.

Regardless of whether we refer to this gene as “R-M124”, “M124” or “rm124”, we have no evidence that this gene “dominantly enter[ed] the Ashkenazi pool” in the first place.

So why are we “talking of” this gene at all?

I never claimed that R-M124 is “dominant.” Honestly, I do not know why the Jews are exploring this particular gene. What matters is that this gene is found in about 2% of Ashkenazi and 50-100% in various communities in India, including Yadavas.

You wrote:

[Addendum: on closer examination, it is possible that you meant “found in india dominantly” and not “dominantly enter the Ashkenazi pool” – if so it is (i) very unclear writing and (ii) still false – as R-M124 is not dominant in India. The only place it appears to be even close to dominant is among Kurmanji Kurds.]

  1. Where did you get this 2% figure from?

  2. You are oversimplifying things:

Haplogroup R2a, or haplogroup R-M124, is a Y-chromosome haplogroup characterized by genetic markers M124, P249, P267, L266, and is mainly found in South Asia as well as in Central Asia, Caucasus, Southwest Asia, and the Arab countries with low frequencies.

West Asia

The haplogroup R-M124 frequency of 6.1% (6/114) was found among overall Kurds[21] while in one study which was done with 25 samples of Kurmanji Kurds from Georgia, R-M124 has been observed at 44% (11/25)[22]

In Caucasus high frequency was observed in Armenians from Sason at 18% (18/104)[23] while it was observed at 1% in Armenians from Van. R2 has been found in Chechens at 16%.[24] R-M124 has been found in approximately 8% (2/24) of a sample of Ossetians from Alagir.[25]

In the Caucasus, around 16% of Mountain Jews, 8% of Balkarians,[26] 6% of Kalmyks,[27] 3% of Azerbaijanis,[24] 2.6% of Kumyks,[28] 2.4% of Avars,[28] 2% of Armenians,[24] and 1% to 6% of Georgians[24][26][29] belong to the R-M124 haplogroup. Approximately 1% of Turks[30] and 1% to 3% of Iranians[31] also belong to this haplogroup.

In Iran R-M124 follows a similar distribution as R1a1 with higher percentages in the southeastern Iran. It has been found at Frequencies of 9.1% at Isfahan, 6.9% at Hormozgan and 4.2% in Mazandaran.[32]


This, and intermarriage, provides ample explanation for R-M124 among Mizrahi Jews.

Also, “50-100%” seems an exaggeration – “The frequency is around 10-15% in India and Sri Lanka and 7-8% in Pakistan.”

Please provide a citation for this claim about the Yadavas’ genetic makeup. If you do not have a citation then please STOP making claims about this mythical group.

rm124.pdf (4.3 MB)
sahoo.pdf (949.9 KB)

Kindly see doc rm124 for info about the gene. (I am not able to immediately access the 2% figure. Will do should you want it).
Kindly see doc sahoo for the the r-m124 in india.
I will be thankful if you would restate your questions after reading these docs. I shall surely try to reply.

This was in reply to my request:

I will note that your documents MAKE NO MENTION of the Yadavas – so they are completely non-responsive to my request.

Also, rather than providing pdf copies, with rather mangled formatting, of webpages, could you please instead simply provide links to the webpages in question.

I will therefore, provisionally, conclude:

  1. That we have no solid evidence of the Yadavas existence.

  2. We have no evidence of their genetic makeup to compare with other groups.

Therefore (and until we do get such evidence) discussion of Yadavas is utterly pointless!