AJ Roberts's Theology of Nature

[swamidass (S. Joshua Swamidass)]

@dga471

I agree that subjective doesn’t mean untrue or wrong. Religious experiences are subjective, yet everyone is encouraged to have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. But subjective means that one cannot rationally discuss it nor demonstrate that whatever you experienced is inherent in nature itself.

I’m not sure that is how it works:

@swamidass

This recent Veritas Forum article gets it right:

http://www.veritas.org/positivism-burden-proof/

This is the central thesis of the book. Plantinga argues that although one cannot prove empirically that other minds exist , it is still rational to believe in them, and that the same is true for the existence of God. It follows from this that there must be bases of knowledge outside empirical investigation. This conclusion was anathema to the positivist, whose entire epistemology revolved around a presumption of the omnipotence of empirical investigation.

What is more, the logic is elegantly simple: We believe A despite a lack of empirical evidence ; it is rational to do so; therefore, it might also be rational to believe B despite a lack of empirical evidence. If one takes Plantinga’s goal to be restoring the viability of belief in God by dismantling the tyranny of the positivist regime, he certainly succeeded.

What you are bypassing from the get go in your quest is that we cannot even empirically demonstrate your wife has a mind. We can’t empirically demonstrate anyone has a mind but ourselves. It is still rational to believe there are other minds. Belief in other minds, then, a proper basic belief .

Starting from Plantinga’s argument comes my extension. If we can’t empirically demonstrate another human has a mind, why should not expect to empirically demonstrate the existence of a Divine Mind?

That is, of course, unless that Divine Mind chose to reveal Himself somehow to us. Perhaps He grants us knowledge of a Divine Mind a basic belief. Perhaps He miraculously gives some people awareness. Perhaps He makes use of the One Sign (the Resurrection). This returns us to the fundamental problem. Without words, without revealing, with out written revelation, or miraculous work of God, I’m not sure we can detect a Divine Mind empirically.

I am not denying evidence. There is evidence. There is also something more than the evidence.