Ann Gauger: Did the Human Brain Evolve?

How about that we no longer needed to forage for our food. We lived in ever growing groups, where specialization took over. I could would on one thing and you can work on another thing and then we could trade with the greatest invention of mankind -money. :rofl:

1 Like

Human intelligence is the essence of humans. animals are different from each other in smarts by only tiny degrees or none. We are more different to all/any critter then all critters toward each other.
this because we are made in Gods image. We are smart like him.
Apes are no smarter then cats, dogs, mice, or birds.
Remember we only look like them because we need a body type within the blueprint equation of biology.
Don’t think likeness means a common descent. thats premature and sloppy investigation.

Likeness certainly does not mean common descent, but it is not incompatible with common descent.

It is a paradox. We are continuous with other creatures, but also very different. Both things are true at the same time.

1 Like

Environmental factors played a role also. Civilization seems to be a result of agriculture. If the environment isn’t right for agriculture there isn’t going to be civilization. The end of the last age coincides pretty well with the rise of agriculture

1 Like

Except agriculture arises several times before civilization, and is lost. It might be necessary for culture, but it certainly is not sufficient.

2 Likes

This is mostly personal opinion.

In my view, the main difference from apes (or other apes), is that we are a eusocial species. I see the larger brain, language abilities, etc as adaptations for social living. Our social brain allows us to interact with social constructs – such things as football games, mathematics, law, art.

I doubt that anthropologists and paleontologists will ever be able to fully trace our past, so we might never get beyond guessing.

2 Likes

Well, yeah. I never argued it is sufficient. You’ll notice where I said, “Played a role ALSO.”. It’s just hard to imagine civilization arising without it. Agriculture requires you stay in the same area for long periods of time, and more complex interactions and communication. And what we know about the climate and environment during the Pleistocene makes agriculture (atleast sustained) early in our history unlikely. There is never an easy or straightforward answer in human biological or cultural evolution. We are the most complex species to ever live on earth, so it only makes sense that our evolution, both biologically and culturally, are very complex.
I’m also not arguing agriculture will necessarily lead to civilization. So I’m a little unsure of the point you’re trying to make. There are number of events, some that can show up in the archaeological record, that can prevent agriculture from becoming civilization. Internal conflicts, disease, etc. Finding human remains and studying their pathology after the disappearance of these agricultures would be very informative.

3 Likes

The question to ask is why did something like the human brain evolve only once…

It obviously helps improve fitness… It doesn’t take much time to emerge (a few million years at most, perhaps even a few hundred thousand years)…
Can’t need too many mutations… because we share so much of our DNA with chimps… or even mice…

I guess evolution is inevitable when it is inevitable… and impossible when it is impossible… its all contingency…
We are viewing a world in which the miracles of life are a fait accompli.

Yes, agree that human cognitive ability is much strong than other primates. (I define all genus Homo as humans) H.Erectus 2 million years ago was much advanced over other primates and for every species after H. Erectus the cognitive abilities of humans continued to increase to this very day.

It is not a paradox, cognitive abilities evolved over time resulting in more cognitively advanced humans.

Did you read the article? I can’t speak as to the facts as presented, but the premise of the article is that the mind of the human cannot be explained as you have stated.

I’m not sure @Agauger is correct on that. Even if she isn’t, the human mind is still a puzzle.

I’m not sure on that either… I just wanted to know if @Patrick read the article. It seems like discussions take place such that, far too often, people articulate their philosophies as evidence for their suppositions. When @NLENTS complained that a scientist dressed down his book on a podcast, it was learned that the book was never even read. I spoke up against that because it is wrong. It is always wrong, because it is tantamount to lying.

If @Agauger is wrong, then state where she’s wrong. Don’t suggest that she may not be right. How in the world are we, who are not trained in the way that you brilliant folks are, supposed to learn more about this incredible field if you make open statements based upon opinion? The mind is fantastic, and clearly orders of magnitude more superior than any animal brain. What about the article is wrong? That’s what we all want to know. Not pointless opinion statements like “it is not a paradox” or “I’m not sure she’s right on that one.”

It is purposeless to continue this disgusting war of words in this way. Can’t you all see what is happening? Everyone is so incredibly polarized that they have programmed themselves to dismiss anything that the other side says. Joshua, to be fair, you do make a point now and again of conceding to the opposition that they’ve said something of substance. Beyond that, though, this supposed dialog is a train wreck. Not just here, but everywhere.

It is not possible that every one of the brilliant people in each of these disparate camps are 100% incorrect and lying all of the time. The world simply does not work this way! For the sake of those of us who do not know enough about the subject matter, talk it out and get to the bottom of it. Don’t sit around and make yourselves feel better by commiserating with one another.

2 Likes

Well, I’m speechless. Congratulations on that, we millennials are rarely left speechless.

2 Likes

It is not that complex @Michael_Callen. She just has not made her case. We are getting new knowledge about human brain evolution all the time, and it is not at all clear what is “not possible” versus "not known. So, I’m not just not sure yet.

To be clear, I did not say she was lying and she is certainly not 100% incorrect. Maybe she is even correct on this on this one. I just do not know yet, and I have not picked apart the scientific details of this specific article yet.

I’m just not sure what provoked the response from you @Michael_Callen.

2 Likes

It is a rehash of the Dualism v. Monism debate that really doesn’t add anything new.

I didn’t say that you said that she was lying. When everything that comes from another camp is dismissed as being incorrect it is assumed that one has either accidentally misinterpreted a situation that is being presented as fact (they are wrong) or they are purposefully misrepresenting the case (in which case, they are lying.) The implication of dismissing everything that the other side says is that they are either wrong or they are lying. They either believe that they are correct, but are wrong, or they know that they are wrong and not telling the truth.

These are the implications of these dismissals. Wrong or lying. I have spoken of this to you in the past in private conversations. This is why I have responded in this way. I do not feel (and I have good evidence for feeling this way) that people are taking the discussion seriously. I believe that they are not considering the implications of the things that they are saying. Except, when the shoe is on the other foot. We all see when we are being treated unfairly, and we make note of the injustice, and we articulate the real pain that we feel.

I’m just saying that everyone needs to filter what they say before saying it.

I’m sorry, I don’t understand. Can you recap or point me to the source? Are you directing this to my comments?

I was merely stating that Ann Gauger’s article is a rehash of the long standing debate between Dualism and Monism. A google search for “Dualism v. Monism” should turn up plenty of sites discussing this very same topic. The points that Ann makes are the same points that have been brought up in many previous discussions and debates on the topic. All I am saying is that it isn’t something new. There is nothing wrong with Ann’s article, but it also fails to advance the long standing debate.

2 Likes

Got it! Thanks very much for the clarification! I’ll search and read.