"CASE": Let the C.hristians A.ffirm the S.cience of E.volution

@Faizal_Ali ,

I would suggest that these are not arbitrary limits. In the long march of progress we see thousands of cases where what seemed to be divinely miraculous is now a common place factum within the halls of science.

Since God is not a controllable independent factor of any kind, it is easy to see God as outside the realm of natural law.

For whatever it’s worth, this particular CASE has not been made to feel unwelcome here by atheists or anyone else. Granted, my posting is sporadic at best, but not because I feel unwelcome. Now, I suppose it is accurate that I have not (yet) received my spontaneous hero’s welcome from atheists, but then again I got several threads for my book so expecting anything more would feel churlish.

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I don’t think you have any examples at all.

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I’d enjoy a parade. Would you mind organizing one?

Well now I guess I have to! :laughing:

:grinning: :cowboy_hat_face: :disguised_face: :clown_face: :japanese_ogre: :japanese_goblin: :space_invader: :robot: :mage: :man_mage: :woman_mage: :vampire: :man_vampire: :woman_vampire: :horse_racing: :skier: :surfing_man: :weight_lifting_man: :man_biking: :mountain_biking_man: :person_juggling: :woman_juggling: :bath: :footprints: :monkey_face: :monkey: :gorilla: :orangutan: :dog: :dog2: :guide_dog: :poodle: :wolf: :fox_face: :cat: :black_cat: :lion: :tiger: :leopard: :zebra: :deer: :bison: :ox: :water_buffalo: :cow2: :boar: :ram: :sheep: :goat: :dromedary_camel: :camel: :llama: :giraffe: :hippopotamus: :bear: :bat: :hedgehog: :beaver: :chipmunk: :rabbit2: :rabbit: :hamster: :mouse2: :mouse: :koala: :panda_face: :sloth: :skunk: :kangaroo: :badger: :owl: :swan: :eagle: :dove: :penguin: :bird: :hatched_chick: :baby_chick: :hatching_chick: :rooster: :dodo: :flamingo: :parrot: :frog: :turtle: :shark: :blowfish: :tropical_fish: :fish: :seal: :whale2: :whale: :t_rex: :dragon: :octopus: :coral: :snail: :bug: :fly: :mosquito: :scorpion: :spider_web: :cockroach: :microbe: :evergreen_tree: :cherries: :mushroom: :avocado: :fried_egg: :shrimp: :wine_glass: :champagne: :beer: :beers: :clinking_glasses: :rocket: :diving_mask: :mans_shoe: :athletic_shoe: :hiking_boot: :high_heel: :boot: :crown: :musical_note: :notes: :warning: :checkered_flag:

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Hardly. If the only difference between two groups of bacteria was one was labeled “with antibiotic”, and the other “without antibiotic”, would that be a good experimental design to test the effect of an antibiotic?

The question is irrelevant to the fact that whales are descended from land dwelling tetrapods.

Sure, assuming he is powerful enough to avoid doing anything against his will.

TBH, I have no idea what points you think are making with the above.

…which would suggest that arbitrary limits are exactly what they are.

One does not have to control a factor in an experiment in order to control for it.

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@Faizal_Ali ,

Could you give us an example?

Quick question for @swamidass

Ďo we have headcounts of CHASEs vs Atheists vs Young Earthers (vs any other important category?).

@Mercer

The GAE should appeal to CHASEs. After several years of operation, how many are there? And how many have
have posted within the last year?

@Dan_Eastwood

I think there is maybe one Atheist audience member who “gets” my point. All the rest you “professionals” leave me speechless and agitated.

Considering the GAE is the emotional focus for why PS.org was founded, why are there so few CASEs to talk to?

You ask why would anyone criticize “good science”. But that’s a weird statement, isnt it? CASEs do the science part just fine (generally speaking).

How many times has an Atheist congratulated a CASE for using a good metaphysical argument to dismiss a YEC’s theory that “God would never use evolution”?

Agitated, yes. Speechless, clearly not! :wink:

IMO you are wrong; everyone gets your point. We don’t understand what gets you agitated.

I did not ask this, nor do I think it is weird.

Anyone (given appropriate training) is capable of conducting good science. Atheist/Christian is not part of that question. Some people, though capable, reject scientific methods for religious reasons. Others skip the science entirely and simply reject it for religious reasons.
(There are a scattering of atheists who reject science too, but that’s kind of off topic.)

What counts as “congratulations?” Does clicking a “like” :+1: button count, or do we need to throw them a party? :partying_face: The former occurs regularly.

How about respect? I think that may be a more appropriate term for what you are trying to say that “congratulations.” I think we all respect when a person makes a good argument, scientific or metaphysical. Respect might apply even when we disagree, depending of the form of argument.

Clearly there is a very low threshold for dishonest argument here at PS, no matter who is making that argument. I think there is also a high tolerance for honest disagreement.

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Tragically, now this can no longer happen spontaneously. :smiley:

At this point some of us would literally beg (or throw a spontaneous hero’s parade) for anything meaningful to discuss here, but still… want to talk about your book? I know, I know, it’s probably classified [insert tired old line from Top Gun] but worth asking.

I should add there is a tendency here to “pile on” criticism, sometimes too much IMO, but that is the nature of online discussion. :wink:

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So you are saying that you have zero examples, correct?

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What’s a CHASE? Are you now misspelling your own acronym?

Really? Who is that, what is your point, and is the reason people don’t get it possibly something to do with how poorly you express yourself? Or your refusal to answer clarifying questions?

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What exactly is his point?

I will paraphrase it, “People behaving in a reasonable manner are deserving of respect.” That not what he wrote, but it’s as near as I can get to what he appears to mean.

@gbrooks9 do you agree?

Well, who can argue with that? Who would argue with that? Who does he think has been arguing with that?

TO:
@John_Harshman and @Dan_Eastwood

No, that is definitely NOT what I mean.

What I mean is that Atheists zealously exert such hegemony over the discussion boards to such an extent that there is a polarizing effect leaving little middle ground for CASEs - - as well as producing a detrimental influence on building trust between YECs and CASEs!

You are absolutely right. CHASE was supposed to be CASE. Ill make corrections where possible!

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@Dan_Eastwood ,

When I was active at BioLogos, i was always surprised by the number of CASEs who served as volunteer admins or who posted.

Was this because Collins, well known Christian, was a founder?

Many of these folks considered it obvious that Genesis 1 was metaphorical or allegorical.

But as soon as I tried to propose a scenario where God guided all individual mutations, I noticed the pushback was similar to posts that proposed Adam was historical (even with an Old Earth contest)!

So when @swamidass founded PS.org bases on the GAE, I was expecting lots of new online participants for those who wantedva way to have a historical Adam … AND Old Earth Evolution.

BUT … for what ever reason, we can see see that there just isn’t much of a CASE presence! Eventually, I suggested that Atheists opposed to any religious-inspired discussion were sucking all the oxygen out of PS.org. And so let’s give YEC v. Atheist debates in a separate room (or in a secondary tiered chat area) - - i was virtually chased out by Atheists who had somehow reached the conclusion that the BAE was written as a clever ‘con job’ that enabled Atheists with their argument that we dont need ANY God to have evolution.

Why exactly do we have any GAE discussion at all if we dont give any priority to Adam and Eve as historic figures within the context of Old Earth evolution?!