Food for thought on whale evolution

[T.j_Runyon]

@scd

the swimming type is different

Yep. Because it descended from a land mammal. The running and swimming biomechanics are the same. Spine moves in the same way

[RonSewell (RonS)]

@scd

maybe these facts are related to the whale internal flipper structure. you dont know that and actually no one knows. so you only have an assumption.

Now that is just being obtuse. It is a flipper. It flips. There is no need specifically of a fibula as opposed to any number of arrangements.

@scd

you also forget that the burdon of proof isnt on the ID anyway.

This is not a court case. You are free to believe as you will regardless of the evidence.

[scd]

@Rumraket

Whale dorsal fin(look at orcas), tail fluke(all whales). Whale, not fish. No bones. Work just fine as fins.

because a dorsal fin has different function at different location. you cant realy compare the two.

@Rumraket

If you think speculations are sufficient, then I can just as well offer speculations back to rebut yours.

feel free to do that. but im not the one who need to prove that a dolphin need design. you are the one who need to prove it evolved.

@Rumraket

And it predicts that in some restricted timespan of geological time there should be found cetaceans with transitional features.

no it doesnt. even if we never found a transitional fossil of whale evolution will be ok with that (in fact many such fossils are still missing and no one cares). so evolution doesnt predict this.

@T.j_Runyon

Yep. Because it descended from a land mammal.

another assumption.

@RonSewell

There is no need specifically of a fibula as opposed to any number of arrangements.

have you ever designed a whale without these parts and the whale performance were the same?

[Rumraket (Mikkel R.)]

@scd

feel free to do that. but im not the one who need to prove that a dolphin need design. you are the one who need to prove it evolved.

Laughing
Out
Loud

[gbrooks9 (GeorgeB)]

@scd

have you ever designed a whale without these parts and the whale performance were the same?

@scd

You are back? Ugh… looks like I’m going to have to drop my participation in this thread. You are going to repeat yourself, repeat yourself, repeat yourself…

AND YOU WILL NEVER ALLOW THAT OMNIPOTENT GOD CAN USE EVOLUTION.

You don’t really belong anywhere on this list, but I won’t agitate further on this thread.

[T.j_Runyon]

@scd

another assumption.

I noticed where you ignored data I provided. Your favorite word is assumption. @colewd favorite word is assertion. That’s all you guys ever add to the conversation. You have got to become more familiar with the data and why biologists believe what they believe. Simply saying assumption isn’t going to get rid of the evidence.

[scd]

@Rumraket

Laughing

im not joking. the burdon of proof was always on the naturalistic side. remember the famous watch argument. im not the one who need to prove that a watch need design.

@T.j_Runyon

Simply saying assumption isn’t going to get rid of the evidence.

unless they are indeed base on assumption. like in this case.

[evograd (Blogging Graduate Student)]

Can @moderators split all the “god-guided evolution” comments to a different thread, keeping this one about whale evolution?

[Roy (30-year veteran)]

@scd

@Rumraket

A “degenerated flipper”(in a species with a tail fluke no less) with a femur, tibia, and metatarsal?

correct. even in wiki they are aware about that:

“Possible uses for the structure have been given, such as clasper-like body functions. These limbs would have been used to guide the animals’ long bodies during mating”

and even in its restoration it doesnt have legs but fins (image from wiki):
…
so yes, its not a leg.

You weren’t just asked about restorations of fossil animals with claspers, but about actual living humpback whales with atavistic leg bones.

[scd]

@Roy

You weren’t just asked about restorations of fossil animals with claspers, but about actual living humpback whales with atavistic leg bones .

these bones also exist in basilosaurus and he used it for flippers.