Fantastic. Do you mind sharing some names of the yec theologians who say these ideas faithful to Scripture? Or does this info ruin the unveiling of your book? And ps, i read and respect a number of old earth creationist theologians perspectives on scripture. I have a really hard time marrying the theology about God as involved creator and mainstream ideas that highlight materialistc causes of bio complexity that kick God to the curb. Im nervous that i will find too much of that latter and too little of the former in your bookā¦i guess i will find out.
No offense taken, I am more than capable of laughing at myself ![]()
This group think of yours about āmaterialistic causesā ⦠itās way over the top.
If someone were to present the horticultural requirements of growing a beautiful peach tree⦠would you āgo offā on the presenter about āhighlighting materialismā with all his projector images of fertilizer, and minerals, and shovel work, and watering, and pesticides?
If not, why wouldnāt you? Sure, God made peach trees⦠but he didnāt make the one in this manās backyard⦠he planted the seed himself. And he used every scientific strategy known to humanity to make that peach tree MAGNIFICENT!
So, how is this any different talking about God using Evolution to create life forms⦠isnāt that even LESS materialistic than the peach tree presentation?
Give it time. This is going to play out over the year. I hope you like the book.
Greg, you didnāt even examine the link you used to support your argument.It is unlikely that you are able to consider arguments from different viewpoints fairly if you canāt even examine your own. This is not a recipe for meaningful learning, consideration, and discussion - which may (or may not) be just fine with you.
I read one article about jp morelands book when the article came out months ago on evolution news and assumed that that the right link. I used a search engine to find the link as i did not save. So very sorry. Did this common mistake hurt your feelings or something? I dont know about you, but i still have to work, and have a family and many times am just hurriedly responding between the cracks of everything going on. Do you now see the true article link i meant to send? Moreland is an older man who i respect for his wisdom as a man with strong faith and wisdom. I would like to purchase his book.
I hope you are writing a book that honors God who gave us His revelation about Himself and His works in the Bible so that Christians around the world will like it!
He is. Josh honors himself, his family, and his God in all his works and actions.
I see a pattern: 100% of those who do not subscribe to faith in any sort of deity also trust a materialistic cause of bio complexity. Your horticulture analogy makes no sense about where the plant seeds and branch cuttings originated-were they from materialistic causes resulting from the purely materialistic philosophy bent big bang (never mind wonder where the big bang originated from) or directly from God creating them?
Hi Patrick. Thanks for your input. Your comment reminded me about solomon who wrote my favorite book in all of Scripture. Ecclesiates. Most folks do not like this book as Solomon going thru a midlife crisis. I love it because it is a real depiction of a real failable man still full of wisdom who nevertheless in his humanity began to steer off course into sensual and material pleasures while God was being put on the back burnerā¦and solomon goes into a mid life crisis-Ecc is his journal of the experience. I am not kidding you that when i read your words āhis Godā i instantaneously remembered this passage in Ecc. I will copy the passage belowā¦it essentially says that writting books about any subjective, personal version of God is vanity of which many books are written. And as a side note, many of those books are for personal gain and notariety that do men like you no favors investigating the claims of Christ.
Here is the exact passage that came to mind in Ecc 12:9-12
"Besides being wise, the Preacher also taught the people knowledge, weighing and studying and arranging many proverbs with great care. 10 The Preacher sought to find words of delight, and uprightly he wrote words of truth.
11 The words of the wise are like goads, and like nails firmly fixed are the collected sayings; they are given by one Shepherd. 12 My son, beware of anything beyond these. Of making many books there is no end, and much study is a weariness of the flesh."
To compare an MD, scientist, father, husband of 2019 America with a Hebrew King of an ancient Kingdom of 3000 years old is almost laughable. @swamidass is far more wiser, empathic, knowledgable than an ancient Hebrew King.
In my intelligence, about the stupidest, most absurd, insane, ridiculous, and i dare say immoral suggestion is the idea that a human being who was whipped, crucified to his death, wrapped in 10 lbs or so of burial cloth and placed into a musty cave for 3 days can come back to life, carry on conversations, and eat food while the scars from the nails are still on wrists and feet.
The same level of unintelligence is needed to suggest that matter can be created from nothing.
But wisdom replies to this with 2 short words. One a conjunction and the other a noun: ābut God.ā
Intelligence is meaningless when it is not coupled with wisdom. Solomon spoke such wisdom in Proverbs chapter 8 which interestingly also personifies the living Christ, second person of a triune God! This is one of the most profound passages on wisdom i have ever read by a simple man, an empty vessel through whom God spoke. A modern day PhD MD compared to this is like termite under the weight of our galaxy
He was talking about Solomon, you dimwit! Thus, 3000 years.
And Iām pretty sure Solomon was neither whipped, nor crucified. If I had to guess, he died of a heart attack while scr**ing one of his concubines.
If you read more closely, i was referring to how he calculated that intelligence from a guy w a medical degree trumps the wisdom from a prophet who lived 3000 years ago. I was demonstrating that the āintelligenceā incorporated into an MD degree thinks raising from the dead is stupid. Yet wisdom tells us that with God, all things are possible.
Are you having another bad day?
I hope Iām wise, but Iāve certainly learned from Solomon.
Get wisdom, get understanding: forget it not; neither decline from the words of my mouth. Forsake her not, and she shall preserve thee: love her, and she shall keep thee. Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.
Proverbs 4:5-6
Above all else seek understanding.
So you used a search engine and copied a link without even checking what the link connected to before using it as evidence. This does not hurt my feelings in the slightest, but epitomizes your approach to faith and science. You select the tidbits of science news from creation.com (or other similar sites) that support what you want supported and barely examine those tidbits (or donāt examine, as is the case here). If you cannot objectively and carefully examine your own arguments, how can you possibly objectively and carefully examine an argument that differs from yours? Yet, this does not stop you from judging those that have a view different from yours as theologically and essentially, scientifically inferior.
Oh stop would you. I have studied the creation evolution subject for 20 yrs. I was emailing Dr kurt wise over 10 years ago with my questions and concerns. And i am not a yec because i submit to some parachurch but because i know Christian theology and want to give honest assessments of this and it confirms or confronts all the various perspectives in our world today.
Yes i prob should have checked the link. But you insinuated that i pull stuff out of the internet to fit my perspective. I attended a conference of jp moreland 30 plus yrs ago. Ive read his materials. I have to look in my library if i have books or resourses dating back all those yrs ago. I took a 300 level course by a Christian philosophy prof who knew him and referenced his work. And i read this article about his new book which i need to read. The article is spot on in dealing w the very subject matter at hand and i applaud moreland. Creation history is significantly philosophical as you may have deciphered in these conversations and without a grasp on this, and Christian theology one should have no business influencing the church.
Yes, wise words. Healthy, wealthy, and wise is a good way to live a good life.
I donāt think that qualifies you for an @eddie accredited Ph.D in Religion. ![]()
I dont think eddie would qualify himself as an apostle to the qualifications of the fisherman Peter either. ![]()