How Does Biological Evolution Deal With This?

[Rich_Hampton]

@scd

the problem with this claim is that its a subjective and not an objective. there is no such limit under the evolution scenario. but please show me otherwise.

No, there is nothing in physics to prevent exactly the same structure, down to the level of DNA from occurring independently in different lineages. Then again, there is nothing stopping a thousand monkeys with typewriters from duplicating the works of Shakespeare. But given finite timescales, it doesn’t happen. There are no examples in the historical record.

You ought to know that, “Structures that are the result of convergent evolution are called analogous structures or homoplasies; they should be contrasted with homologous structures, which have a common origin.“

[Mercer (John Mercer)]

And, @scd, I posted an example of such convergent human evolution involving mostly different genes just above.

[scd]

@Faizal_Ali

you wouldn’t be able to pick the odd one or two out, here and there, that seem to be “out of place” to you.

they are not odd at all. i even showed here that about 50% of creatures morphology dont fit with their genetic phylogeny (and thus are out of place).

@Faizal_Ali

Are you saying it is only a subjective claim that, say, the genome of a shark is different from that of a dolphin?

no. its a subjective claim that we cant get the same sequence by convergent evolution.

@gbrooks9

I have no idea what your sentence [above] is supposed to mean.

we can say that ID also has many evidence from many scientific fields and thus we need many counter evidence to falsify it.

@Rich_Hampton

No, there is nothing in physics to prevent exactly the same structure, down to the level of DNA from occurring independently in different lineages.

this is what i said. so there is no real bar that we might say that this cant happen by convergent evolution. if you can show that its indeed improbable please show me.

@Mercer

And, @scd, I posted an example of such convergent human evolution involving mostly different genes just above.

i have no problem with that. im just saying that there is no real limit for evolution at the molecular level too.

[Rich_Hampton]

@scd

. if you can show that its indeed improbable please show me.

As I said, it hasn’t happened in 4 billion years.

[gbrooks9 (GeorgeB)]

@scd

we can say that ID also has many evidence from many scientific fields and thus we need many counter evidence to falsify it.

@scd

No, we cant say that about I.D. I cant think of any ID evidence that even begins to overturn Evolution.

But if you want to say that ID supports God-Guided Evolution, I would say you might have a point!

[Faizal_Ali]

@scd

they are not odd at all. i even showed here that about 50% of creatures morphology dont fit with their genetic phylogeny (and thus are out of place).

You have done no such thing.

@scd

no. its a subjective claim that we cant get the same sequence by convergent evolution.

No, it is a claim that can be demonstrated empirically thru mathematics.

[scd]

@Rich_Hampton

As I said, it hasn’t happened in 4 billion years.

what didnt happened in the last 4 billion years? molecular convergent evolution?

@gbrooks9

I cant think of any ID evidence that even begins to overturn Evolution.

but the opposite is also true: i cant think of any evolution evidence that can falsify ID.

@Faizal_Ali

No, it is a claim that can be demonstrated empirically thru mathematics.

so show me the calculation please.

[Faizal_Ali]

@scd

but the opposite is also true: i cant think of any evolution evidence that can falsify ID.

That’s not quite the same thing as the claim you are responding to, which was:

@gbrooks9

I cant think of any ID evidence that even begins to overturn Evolution.

You’ve essentially admitted that ID is an unfalsifiable claim, which makes it useless as a hypothesis.

@scd

so show me the calculation please.

Nah, I don’t think so. I’ll let you do the work of calculating the number of mutations that would be required, and the odds of that exact sequence arising again thru viable pathways.

[gbrooks9 (GeorgeB)]

@scd

we can say that ID also has many evidence from many scientific fields and thus we need many counter evidence to falsify it.

@scd

Behe believes in God-Guided Evolution… do you?

[Roy (30-year veteran)]

@scd

we can say that ID also has many evidence from many scientific fields and thus we need many counter evidence to falsify it.

Yes, you can say that. But it isn’t true.

[Roy (30-year veteran)]

That “like” arrived so fast I think I’m being stalked.

[Rich_Hampton]

@scd

what didnt happened in the last 4 billion years? molecular convergent evolution?

Yes, that resulted in the exact reappearance of a structure like a fish fin.

[scd]

@John_Harshman

It should work within kinds but fail between kinds. Since we find no level of the tree of life beyond which analysis fails, life is one “kind”

can you elaborate on that? give me a specific (theoretical) case that evolution cant explain and show why it will falsify common descent.

@Robert

A fossil record without faunal succession would falsify evolution.

i dont think so. even if we never found a single fossil evolution will be just fine with that.

@Robert

A lack of correlation between hierarchies inferred from different data sets (e.g. morphology and genetics) would falsify evolution

the same is true here. i even showed here that about 50% of cases base on morphology dont fit with the genetics.

@Rich_Hampton

Penguin fin bones are solid but flight wing bones are hollow. So the penguin would need to reduce weight and maintain strength, but coming up with the same genetic code for hollowness doesn’t have to be the only solution.

so how you can show that its impossible according to evolution to evolve hollow bones again?. there is no such calculation and thus this is only an assumption. evolution has no such bar.

[Roy (30-year veteran)]

@scd

@John_Harshman

It should work within kinds but fail between kinds. Since we find no level of the tree of life beyond which analysis fails, life is one “kind”

can you elaborate on that? give me a specific (theoretical) case that evolution cant explain and show why it will falsify common descent.

Two completely different genetic codes based on different polymeric molecules and producing radically different biomolecules.

You should have been able to think of this yourself.