"Reconciling" science and theism. A perspective from a non scientist

A gun isn’t evidence for a murder. If I walked into someone’s home and saw a gun I wouldn’t consider it evidence for a murder.

Why are you being disingenuous? I was obviously citing his science, not his fiction.

I am not the one being disingenuous. You cite Hawking where you think he agrees with you, but call it fiction when he disagrees with you. What is the point of citing Hawking if you don’t agree with his science?

No, I call his fiction fiction and his science science. Math backs up his science, not his speculations.

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The please show us the math demonstrating that the Universe came from nothing, or from God for that matter.

It is evidence, not proof. Learn to make the distinction.

What math are you citing as evidence for God creating the universe? Or is it just speculation?

It’s totally just speculation. I will cite someone who knows the math better than I:

“Appeals to imagined forces and phenomena have been the basis for all the cosmological models proposed to avoid the big bang implications about God. The disproof of these models and the ongoing appeal by nontheists to more and more bizarre unknowns and unknowables seem to reflect the growing strength of the case for theism.”

Appeals to imagined forces and phenomena seems like an apt descriptor for your claims about the origin of the Universe.

Of course. Your worldview and confirmation bias compel you to say that. :slightly_smiling_face:

Then show us evidence for your claims.

Is Tommy Peterson a pseudonym you use? :slightly_smiling_face:

Are you going to present evidence?

Not more than I have already or is all around you.

On a side note, I think the Lord of the Universe has addressed climate change both directly and indirectly, as I have commented following new articles on the subject:

Contrary to what Christian climate change deniers in the US appear to believe (not that I believe it is necessarily primarily anthropogenic), it seems that the Bible – and in particular, the Carpenter from Galilee – speaks to climate change. It also seems unlikely that it is going to get better. The “distress of nations in perplexity because of the roaring of the sea and the waves” of Luke 21:25 describes climate change well, with rising sea levels and weather extremes, although he may be referring to tsunamis, or both. Some megacryometeors may be a result of climate change, so it would not be a surprise if they became more frequent (cf. Revelation 16:21). Bloody red algae blooming seas, fires, floods and famines are also mentioned – earthquakes, too. Since big bang cosmology’s telling us that space and time(!) had a beginning fits so nicely with Genesis 1:1, I’m inclined to believe more of the Book as well, and it says we live in a dying world.

Given the brokenness of people (all of us) and the corruption in and the ineptitude of governments – first and third world, it doesn’t seem likely that climate change is fixable, even if it were all anthropogenic. And any global financial, geopolitical or geophysical disaster could effectively scrap any unenforceable political agreements. That does not mean that I am not in favor of greener solutions for energy and cleaner air!

Counterintuitively, perhaps, since many consider the Judeo-Christian God to be a vindictive and angry judge, the most frequent mandate in the Bible is “Don’t be afraid” (or one of its several variations, e.g., “Fret not” and “Be anxious for nothing”). That would include not being anxious about politics, climate change and terrorism. Father is in control, like it or not. It would be better to like it. Also counterintuitive, perhaps: he is a loving – and lovable – Father.

You haven’t presented any evidence, nor pointed to any around me.

It seems my earlier response to this disanalogy went unnoticed.

We don’t need to invoke an immaterial cause to explain how clouds form because we can invoke prior physical phenomenon and conditions to explain their formation.

We do need to invoke something immaterial to explain the universe because there are no physical phenomenon or conditions prior to the universe. (By which, if you’ll recall, we are referring to all of physical reality.)

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I’m sorry that you do not have eyes to see nor ears to hear.

I haven’t seen this evidence either @DaleCutler.

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Well, yeah, you can be kind of dense at times. :stuck_out_tongue: (A certain motor springs to mind. :slightly_smiling_face:)