Retire Darwin Day?

[Rumraket (Mikkel R.)]

Thanks. Mission Accomplished.

[swamidass (S. Joshua Swamidass)]

It strikes me that the emotion here parallels what I see in Christians when Christmas is removed as an official holiday. Christmas, in my view, is a religious holiday, and it was always weird for it be instituted as a government holiday. Many Christians, however, see that view as a direct attack on all they hold dear.

Something similar seems to be happening here, at least for some people.

I suppose my issue isn’t with celebrating it per se, but in connecting it too tightly with science outreach. I think we might make better progress in helping religious communities engage with evolutionary science. Perhaps, maybe this wasn’t clear in my introduction to @J.E.S’s article, but I think celebration of Darwin Day makes sense for a lot of people, but it might be a good idea to separate it from advocating for science.

Even as I write this, I know some people are going to disagree. That is fine. I’m just considering the question here with you. I’m not doing a power play either.

[nwrickert (Neil Rickert)]

It sometimes seems that a bunch of conservative Christians get together and pressure Congress into passing a resolution for a national day of prayer. And then a bunch of atheists and evolutionists get together and pressure Congress into passing a resolution for a national Darwin day.

I would like to see both sides call a truce. People can pray without a congressional resolution, and people can celebrate Darwin without a congressional resolution. Let’s keeps the politics out of this.

[swamidass (S. Joshua Swamidass)]

@nwrickert

I would like to see both sides call a truce

Yeah I agree.

@nwrickert

People can pray without a congressional resolution, and people can celebrate Darwin without a congressional resolution. Let’s keeps the politics out of this.

That is my point.

[Djordje]

@swamidass

It strikes me that the emotion here parallels what I see in Christians when Christmas is removed as an official holiday. Christmas, in my view, is a religious holiday, and it was always weird for it be instituted as a government holiday. Many Christians, however, see that view as a direct attack on all they hold dear.

This is something that @Mark must love. While you’re all celebrating a secular and capitalistic (talking about capitalistic St. Nicholas) version of Christmas, he’s celebrating a religious one.

[T_aquaticus]

@Rumraket

There’s one secular celebration, of a scientific theory, which you and many others insist don’t even have any religious significance(what could more thoroughly undermine that claim than this suggestion?). And we’re being asked if we pretty please with sugar on top can’t stop celebrating it one day out of the year by having a few headlines on a few websites mention it stop doing so, and I’m the one being triggered?

More to the point, it isn’t even an official holiday. It is up there with “Take Your Daughter to Work Day” and “National Donut Day”.

[swamidass (S. Joshua Swamidass)]

@T_aquaticus

More to the point, it isn’t even an official holiday. It is up there with “Take Your Daughter to Work Day” and “National Donut Day”.

That is not quite right. Look at this program at WUSTL:

Darwin Day

It connects science outreach to Darwin Day. I’m not sure this is the most effective approach.

[Jordan (Jordan Mantha)]

@nwrickert

It sometimes seems that a bunch of conservative Christians get together and pressure Congress into passing a resolution for a national day of prayer. And then a bunch of atheists and evolutionists get together and pressure Congress into passing a resolution for a national Darwin day.

I guess this is where I get confused. Is Darwin Day designed as an atheist “let’s get us a day to compete with all the religious holidays” or is this a science/biology advocacy day (like we chemists have Mole Day)? It’s probably a mix of both but I think that’s where @swamidass’s concern maybe lies.

[T_aquaticus]

@Jordan

I guess this is where I get confused. Is Darwin Day designed as an atheist “let’s get us a day to compete with all the religious holidays” or is this a science/biology advocacy day (like we chemists have Mole Day)? It’s probably a mix of both but I think that’s where @swamidass’s concern maybe lies.

At least in the US, we can’t help but view Darwin Day through the lens of the Scopes trial and other similar conflicts between science and certain religious beliefs. Part of the reason we celebrate Galileo is because of this same conflict. If it weren’t for segregation there wouldn’t be MLK day. If it weren’t for two massive wars we wouldn’t have Veteran’s Day or Memorial Day. Just as those other holidays can serve as a platform for equal rights and peace, Darwin Day can serve as a platform for continued support of the sciences and scientific outreach.

[nwrickert (Neil Rickert)]

I agree that it is a mix of both. But it is the political aspect that is divisive.

[T.j_Runyon]

I enjoy my yearly slice of cake and selfie with the Darwin Cutout.

[J.E.S (Jonathan)]

I am late to the party!

@Rumraket

How many religious holidays are celebrated we can start retiring?

So, you’re saying that atheists are entitled to their one religious holiday since Christians have so many?

@NLENTS

We celebrate Darwin Day, and not others, because none of them are vilified with the same level of vitriol that Darwin is.

The vilification of Darwin could be, in part, a response to the idolization of Darwin (which is exemplified by Darwin Day celebrations). I still think that it would be a great benefit if the Creation/Evolution discussion could avoid fixating on Darwin. Here’s a key paragraph from the article:

Ultimately, it is good to take a balanced view of Charles Darwin who, like all of us, had his accomplishments and shortcomings. Darwin is not a devil to be despised anymore than he is an idol to be venerated. Still, we need to re-evaluate the purpose and value of Darwin Day. Choosing Darwin as the namesake for an unofficial scientific holiday does more to alienate those who disagree with Darwin’s macroevolutionary conclusion than it does to elevate good research.

In the journey toward a more gracious and inclusive origins dialogue, perhaps retiring Darwin Day could be a small but worthwhile step that we are all willing to take.

This is something that merits discussion:

@Jordan

I guess this is where I get confused. Is Darwin Day designed as an atheist “let’s get us a day to compete with all the religious holidays” or is this a science/biology advocacy day (like we chemists have Mole Day)?

I don’t know of anyone who has a problem with Mole Day (or Pi day ). In the end, (also note what I wrote in the emphasized statement from the article above) I completely agree with @swamidass here:

@swamidass

I suppose my issue isn’t with celebrating it per se, but in connecting it too tightly with science outreach.

Now, of course, you can disagree with @swamidass and I, but I do hope you give this article some serous thought.

[NLENTS (Nathan H. Lents)]

@J.E.S

The vilification of Darwin could be, in part, a response to the idolization of Darwin (which is exemplified by Darwin Day celebrations)

Um, no. Darwin Day started in the last 20 years or so. The vilification of him began 170 years ago and has never let up. He wasn’t idolized by Huxley and the others… he was defended from the vicious attacks, mostly coming from the church.

[J.E.S (Jonathan)]

@NLENTS
That’s just one example of the idolization (and it happens to be the example we are discussing today).

[swamidass (S. Joshua Swamidass)]

@NLENTS

Um, no. Darwin Day started in the last 20 years or so. The vilification of him began 170 years ago and has never let up. He wasn’t idolized by Huxley and the others… he was defended from the vicious attacks, mostly coming from the church.

If it isn’t 100% clear, I think both @J.E.S and I are arguing against vilifying Darwin too. We are taking a bit of third way here.

[T.j_Runyon]

There is Pi Day, National fossil day, and a handful of others. I see no problem with Darwin Day. Just another day celebrating a cool discovery. Space week, earth science week, world oceans day. The list goes on and on

[J.E.S (Jonathan)]

@swamidass

If it isn’t 100% clear, I think both @J.E.S and I are arguing against vilifying Darwin too. We are taking a bit of third way here.

Exactly.

[swamidass (S. Joshua Swamidass)]

@NLENTS

The vilification of Darwin could be, in part, a response to the idolization of Darwin (which is exemplified by Darwin Day celebrations)

Um, no. Darwin Day started in the last 20 years or so. The vilification of him began 170 years ago and has never let up. He wasn’t idolized by Huxley and the others… he was defended from the vicious attacks, mostly coming from the church.

@NLENTS, point taken. Historically, the vilification of Darwin probably started long before his idolization. @TedDavis might help us clarify that point.

[T_aquaticus]

@NLENTS

Um, no. Darwin Day started in the last 20 years or so.

Actually, it started well before that:

The celebration of Darwin’s work and tributes to his life have been organized sporadically since his death on 19 April 1882, at age 73.[2] Events took place at Down House, in Downe on the southern outskirts of London where Darwin and members of his family lived from 1842 until the death of his wife, Emma Darwin, in 1896.[3][4]

In 1909, more than 400 scientists and dignitaries from 167 countries met in Cambridge to honour Darwin’s contributions and to discuss vigorously the recent discoveries and related theories contesting for acceptance. This was a widely reported event of public interest.[5][6] Also in 1909, on 12 February, the 100th birth anniversary of Darwin and the 50th anniversary of the publication of On The Origin of Species were celebrated by the New York Academy of Sciences at the American Museum of Natural History. A bronze bust of Darwin was unveiled.[7] On 2 June 1909 the Royal Society of New Zealand held a “Darwin Celebration”. “There was a very large attendance.”[8]
Darwin Day - Wikipedia

[evograd (Blogging Graduate Student)]

Choosing Darwin as the namesake for an unofficial scientific holiday does more to alienate those who disagree with Darwin’s macroevolutionary conclusion than it does to elevate good research.

We’re concerned with alienating people who disagree with well-established science now? Welp, better cancel Yuri’s Night, Moon Day, Space Week (etc) as to not alienate flat earthers/moon landing deniers and cancel Earth Hour as to not alienate climate change deniers.

To add, I also would support the establishment of something like “Einstein Day” or “Newton Day” to celebrate these kinds of remarkable scientists and their massively important work. There’s enough science to go around several dedicated days, given that they could have quite different emphases. It’s much easier for the public to approach scientific fields using one or several individuals as “gateways”, as we can relate to their personal stories and progression.

Besides, would creationists really feel much less alienated if “Darwin Day” became “Evolutionary Biology Day” or even “Science Day”? As long as evolution is publicly promoted they’ll feel like they’re being marginalised. It’s not the fact that Darwin is being celebrated, or that his face is plastered everywhere - the problem is that people celebrate/promote evolution because (many) creationists feel that this is an attack on their religion. The reason that some atheist groups place an emphasis on evolution/Darwin Day should be obvious - it’s a response to theists who’re anti-evolution. If I were to snap my fingers and make everyone on the planet accept evolution, but have their religious beliefs be otherwise unchanged, how much do you want to bet that there would be a sharp drop off in atheist groups making special plans for Darwin Day?