Scientific evidence for the supernatural

It’s your logic which is completely bollixed up. For some reason you think if science eliminates some natural causes for a phenomenon that somehow means ALL natural causes are eliminated. That’s like searching your garage for Jimmy Hoffa and not finding him there, then declaring supernatural pixies must have whooshed him to the 23rd dimension.

How many people have pointed out the same battleship sized hole in your reasoning? Yet still you drone on.

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@Jim,

No… rather … I’m suggesting that metaphysics doesn’t seem to respond to the surgical implement we call “logic”.

Of all the notorious metaphysical events… “The Fall” (which I prefer to call The Expulsion)… logic would suggest that Adam and Eve can only be guilty of Sin if they know the difference between Good and Evil. And yet we have it on bountiful authority that God made sure they knew nothing of Good and Evil before their fall.

So logic would suggest… they fell not at all. They were Educated. What’s logical about putting a machine gun into the hands of a 3 year old… and telling him or her, in no uncertain terms, do NOT pull the trigger.

If I overhead a conversation like that, I would high-tail it right out of the vicinity … because you know gunshots and mayhem are not far behind!

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I’m not confused at all. The passage in Revelation does give a sequence, not just because of the numbering but also because it describes people still being afflicted by the earlier events when the later ones happen. The passage in Luke doesn’t necessarily require the events happen at the same time, but it does say that Jerusalem being surrounded by armies is the precursor, and it does say that they all happen. So unless Jerusalem is encircled and the sun and moon start shaking, global warming is nothing to do with these prophecies.

Luke also writes that “this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened” But it did.

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There’s just a little bit (read, ‘massive amounts’) of imagery and metaphor In Revelation, and like poetic literature (and Revelation is that, too), literal language and symbolic language exist side by side. Insisting on a strict sequential ‘literal’ reading is analogous to YECs insisting that the ‘days’ in Genesis 1 are 24-hour ones.

“…this generation” could easily be taken to mean mankind, our species.

That is exactly the case, yes.

If you hold a rock and let it go, logic cannot tell you whether it will fall to ground or stay suspended in the air. That requires empirical evidence.

…about the particulars of either is impossible with someone who can’t tell them apart.

(A prophet who is wrong 50% of the time with a binary outcome is not a prophet. :slight_smile: He’s a guesser.)

But one who is correct only 0.000000000001% of the time is a real prophet? Please support that claim.

I don’t need to. I did not make that claim.

Well, what are the statistics on fulfilled “prophecies”? I haven’t seen any numbers from you, so I felt entitled to make my own estimate. If you have better numbers, please share them.

You really don’t understand the concept. A prophecy may be true but not fulfilled yet, so good luck assigning statistics to fulfilled prophecies. If you choose to believe that “Nations will be in distress and perplexity because of the roaring of the sea and the waves” is not descriptive of global warming and that you can ignore the One who spoke it, you certainly may. Wiser people will not.

The prophecies of Daniel are quite compelling in terms of specificity and accuracy. And the Dead Sea Scrolls contained a Daniel scroll that absolutely predated the events. There are many sites dedicated to describing their accuracy.

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So you think your prophet is saying that the events that affect humanity will not take place after humanity ceases to exist.

That Jerusalem won’t be surrounded by armies when there is no longer anyone in Jerusalem and no armies available to surround it.

You are practicing the technique of “if-it-meant-that-it-would-have-failed-so-it-must-mean-something-else”.

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Yes, absolutely, the resurrection ! And more specifically, the Shroud of Turin.

Try reading.

“Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until [after] all has taken place.”

Evidence for the supernatural

So you think your prophet is saying that humanity will not cease to exist before events that involve humanity have taken place.

Try thinking.

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You do not seem to have understood my question. I will repeat it:

What are the statistics on fulfilled “prophecies”? I haven’t seen any numbers from you, so I felt entitled to make my own estimate. If you have better numbers, please share them.

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I understood your question, but the way that you look at prophecy is not the same way that I do. When you characterized the accuracy of prophecy, you did so like this:

The implication of this is that biblical prophecies (almost) never come true. If this is not what you were saying (above) then please clarify. I responded by saying that the prophecies of Daniel are well documented. The predictions made by Daniel looked far into the future, beyond his own life, but they have been seen to be incredibly accurate. Some events have yet to come true, but this is not because they are false, it is because the full narrative has not yet unfolded. Here is a chart that explains Daniel’s 70-week prophecy from chapter nine:

(source: https://nightwatchsite.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/daniel-chart-2.jpg)

So, your question, while sincere is not phrased in a way that most of us would be able to answer. It is somewhat like “How loud is orange?”

Keep in mind that Hebrew prophets, if found to be false prophets, were stoned to death. So giving prophecy from God was not to be taken lightly.

You still have not answered my question.

What percentage of “prophecies” like those of Daniel have been fulfilled? How does this compare with what we would expect by pure chance? How do we distinguish a “prophecy” from a lucky guess, or a reasonably informed prediction?

BTW, not everyone is as impressed by Daniel’s “prophecies” as you are:

https://infidels.org/library/modern/chris_sandoval/daniel.html

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You are right. I have not answered your question as asked. I personally do not know what percentage of them have been fulfilled. I’m not at all surprised that you can find a web link to a page that disagrees with the Judeo / Christian understanding of Daniel’s prophecies being fulfilled. For every supporter there is a detractor.

EDIT: That said, I believe that this brings up an important point. The dialog would improve greatly if we would ALL resist the temptation to trade links. There’s not a topic that I can think of that does not have some detractor, whose web links can be copied and pasted. When I pasted the link to the image, above, I did so in order to explain the nature of the prophecies in Daniel, showing that they are complex and multi-layered, and not as binary (and quantifiable) as you may have imagined.