@gbrooks9 , The text doesn’t use the Hebrew verb translated “created” with regard to either Adam or Eve. It does use “asa” and “yatsar” --“formed” and “made.” Thus, it does not present them as having been “specially created” or “de novo” at all. Nor does the phrase, “formed from dust.”
That said, God created the entire universe and all of humanity in His image, including Adam and Eve. It’s not “either evolution, or creation,” but both /and. God designed and upholds nature, and natural processes, but is not confined to them as His available means.
Does that help? It helps to question categories which have been presented as dichotomous falsely.
I’m a pretty flexibly minded fellow sometimes… and I can see why you don’t want to represent the Adam/Eve couple as “created”, if the Hebrew doesn’t warrant it. But you are answering some question other than the one I asked.
I asked: Why do you call yourself a progressive creationist … if there is no “poof” creating going on? You would be the first Evolutionist I have heard self-labeling himself a Progressive Creationist. What’s all that about?
Because the Hebrew verb " bara" doesn’t mean “poof.” It is silent about duration, and utilitarian means. It doesn’t, in and of itself, mean “ex nihilo,” but rather emphasizes the complete novelty of its object. I’m not the first, but people get too entrenched in categories to understand easily.
Just what the heck are you talking about?
You call yourself a Progressive Creationist. Neither PROGRESSIVE nor CREATIONIST has any reference to “Good” or anything to do with Bara.
If there is no Creationism going on (in the English sense of the word) why are you using that descriptor?
Go study the Hebrew to understand. It’s all there. The “English sense” is majorly screwed up. Do you require “poof” in your understanding of “bara?” Because there’s no Hebrew warrant for that.
BTW, there’s no English warrant for insisting on it, either. If I say, “Michaelangelo created the mural on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel,” am I thereby communicating it was done in a “poof?”
Progressive creationists believe that God has actively intervened (sic) at many different places in natural history to bring about what we find in the record of nature --without saying exactly “how.” I also explore the “how.”
Progressive Creationists call themselves Creationists because they don’t believe animals and humans were created by Evolution. So your explanation for calling yourself a Creationist makes zero sense.
You are not a creationist, based on your own words.
You are an Evolutionist of one variety or another. Are you feeling ok?
No; your category is in error. OEC’s don’t deny that evolution occurred, just that it is sufficient, in and of itself. God acted, for example, in “creating mankind in His image,” and much more than simple evolution was required.
Feeling great; thanks for asking.
Alright guys, seems like you are in a loop. Remember, you are friends, and you are going to disagree on things from time to time. Take a break and come back to it.
Many TE say the same thing. The key distinguisher is common descent. Though this reminds me of A Blurry Line Between TE and OEC. I think you both are very close to being both TE and OEC at the same time. Many people @gbrooks9 would say (incorrectly in my view) that guided-evolution is not evolution, but just OEC.
Agreed. Given those distinctions, I’m pretty comfortable as being seen as under either label, but prefer OEC. Most TE advocates seem, to me, to try too hard to “absolutize” a natural process.
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Hi. My only question here is what your reference is for molecular clock evidence suggesting date for humanity is 260k ago? In the Journal, Nature Genetics 15 (1997) 363-368. article by Parsons, Thomas J. Title: " A high observed substitution rate in the human mitochondrial DNA control region", contains this quote from the author. “Using our empirical data to calibrate the mtDNA molecular clock of only 6500 yrs ago, clearly incompatible with the known age of modern human”. The evolutionary model required the mutation rate to be at least 1 every 12,000 yrs, his conclusion demonstrated they occured only every 800, consistent with the young earth model.
A whole new field of sequencing ancient humans has emerged. David Reich’s book tells all about it.
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