Stern Cardinale: Response to Price, Carter, and Sanford on Genetic Entropy

Not when it comes to mutations.

Imagine a gene encoding an enzyme that converts substrate A to B, which is something functional. The rate of A to B conversion happens naturally at some extremely low level already, the enzyme just speeds it up by many orders of magnitude.

Now imagine you are mutating this gene so the enzyme gets worse at performing it’s function. As you add more and more of such mutations, eventually the enzyme stops working entirely and it no longer speeds up the reaction anymore.
When the enzyme no longer works, it’s function can’t get worse without gaining a new function (to further reduce the natural A to B conversion ratio below it’s natural background level, the enzyme would have to gain a new function such as binding of and inhibiting or catalyzing destruction of substrate A before it converts to B).
At this point there are technically only strictly neutral and function-creating mutations available to it. The ratio of function-reducing to function-creating mutations have thus shifted completely away from function-reducing mutations.

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I’m shocked, shocked to see that geology and astronomy are going on in this establishment! ([Waiter]: Your winnings, sir, from the theology table.)

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Genesis was not written as a polemic. See: The Genesis Account by Sarfati, ch. 2.

Then we agree: Mutations do not have fixed fitness costs. Somebody should tell Sanford.

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Come on now. You’re a genetics professional. I would expect you to respect your own field too much to allow other fields to dictate what “must be the case”. If genetics says the astronomers and geologists are wrong in proclaiming deep time, then let them be wrong. Don’t assume they’re right and then refuse to look for function in the genome on that account.

I wonder how many own goals against Genetic Entropy PDPrice is going to score tonight? That’s 2 in the last 20 minutes. :slightly_smiling_face:

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Pretty sure you just accidentally explained the development of the Germanic branch of Indo-European languages.

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Ok, your logic is, “once you’ve totally destroyed something, you’ve got nowhere to go but up!” Okay.

Why are you referencing Sarfati, a scientist, and not a biblical scholar?

Well, because you’re wrong. He is a biblical scholar AND a scientist.

You are exceptionally confused. The mutations that occur in the genomes of reproducing cells do not change the rate of movement of the continents, or the processes of nuclear fusion that occur inside stars. Or the orbit of Jupiter around the sun. Or the rate of decay of isotopes of strontium.

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I don’t see a theological or biblical studies degree at all

Let me reference one who does

You’re this close to getting it. So what if it’s, like, 50% reduced compared to the baseline? or 80%? or 10%? Can it go up by those fractions?

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Sarfati may have a science degree but he hasn’t been a scientist for well over 20 years. He’s been a professional YEC apologist.

You don’t need a degree to do scholarly work. Or to be a scholar. The Genesis Account is proof of that. Which is why I referenced it.

Good, thank you. Now we are done, and there is a point at which the DFE is equal, and a point at which it is completely skewed towards neutral and beneficial. The DFE of mutations cannot physically remain constant.

Game over.

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THANK YOU. Last one out get the lights.

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The more destroyed the genome gets, the more mutations will be effectively neutral. The less function there is to damage, the less damaging the average mutation will become. That will, in turn, make genetic entropy worse. For evolution we need selectable changes. But building up new function from scratch is much harder, not easier than making improvements on existing function. It’s harder to invent the computer from scratch than it is to make an already-existing computer .0009% faster.

Your logic is sadly … totally divorced from reality.

If your argument hinges on false analogies, you’re doing something wrong

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So natural selection does act…I was hoping that would be the conversation rather than the DFE.

What does this even mean? How does natural selection know how to make substitions rather than mutations?

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