The Flagellum is Not a Motor?


(Dale Cutler) #121

I believe dirt has functions, as does a pile of sugar or flour. None are analogous to a functioning machine with moving parts.

(Dale Cutler) #122

Shall we talk about whether a bacterial flagellum is a motor or not? :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

(Timothy Horton) #123

Why not? You’re the self-appointed judge of what things can and cannot be used as analogies now?

(Dale Cutler) #124

Yes, I am. Thank you for noticing.


Who has made that claim?

(Herculean Skeptic) #126

I would think he’s referring to this:


That would depend on what you mean by “mechanical.” Are you sure this isn’t about word games?


Sure it is. Didn’t you read my post?

“In the same way, the mechanical movement of tectonic plates sculpts the geology of the Earth.”

It says it right there. You can also find articles that describe the mechanics of Earth geology, even articles that describe the engine that drives it.


Have you heard of this guy named Michael Behe?


Isn’t that what the ID argument boils down to, a bunch of word games?


I’ve heard of Michael Behe. I’ve also seen him misrepresented too many times to count. Do you think it’s in keeping with the aims of this site to misrepresent Behe and other ID advocates?


Here is a direct quote:


You want to know what’s missing from that quote? Here, I’ll show you:

So as far as I can tell, Behe never makes the claim that you attribute to him. I’ll continue to believe he never made any such claim. And I’d thank you to stop misrepresenting him.


I would fully agree that Behe never labelled all of the proteins in the flagellum as being required, but he has made the claim that many of those proteins had to emerge all at once in order to have function.


Perhaps another quote is in order then, one where he actually says what you claim he says.

(S. Joshua Swamidass) #136

It is not keeping with the aims to misrepresent people, which is why I am not misrepresenting them.


Here is one:

Behe calls the bacteria flagellum irreducibly complex. Therefore, the definition from the earlier posts would apply here.

(Dan Eastwood) #138

BUT a sundial is a simple way to tell time - a primitive clock. The request was for a simple step to create a clock, and a sundial is perhaps the simplest sort of clock there is. There was not stipulation of mechanical complexity in the request! :slight_smile:

IF it’s a mechanical clock you want, I’ll get a piece of string and hang the compass from it, creating a pendulum. Then I’ll give it a push and count how many times the compass swings back and forth, keeping time in that manner. Viola, a mechanical clock! :stuck_out_tongue:

(Dale Cutler) #139

You want to join an orchestra? :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes: (Speaking of strings. :slightly_smiling_face:)

(Dale Cutler) #140

(You’re chopping up the analogy’s horse’s missing leg into tiny pieces. :slightly_smiling_face:)