The Gospels, Eyewitness Testimony, and Faith

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82

[experiment] → [expected outcome]

ask → receive

seek → find

knock → the door will be open

taste → see

cast your cares on Him → He will care for you

draw near to the thrown of grace → receive mercy and find grace to help in your time of need

submit your ways to Him → He will make your path straight

confess your sins to Him → He is faithful to forgive and cleanse you

hunger and thirst for righteousness → be satisfied

follow Jesus → receive abundant life, family, trials, troubles, joy, peace, purpose

The above examples are not generic, they refer to approaching God specifically. And there are some conditions mentioned at times, like, “you ask and do not receive, because you ask wrongly, to spend it on your passions”. Also, the scriptures are full of this kind of thing. I only included a few.

To the human race (in Gen 1) God offers a co-laboring relationship. In Gen 2 God calls two humans (or a subset) to receive his goodness and then spread it to the rest of the land.

My personal experience has confirmed for me that God gives peace, purpose, friendship, his presence, his guidance, a co-working relationship and a lot more. My part has been to seek him and follow him. And has included lots of turning back to him when I’ve gone away from him.

83

It’s not a metaphor. I have lived my life in this way. I can’t offer a control other than to speculate what my life would have been without my experiences of God.

And I don’t think I’m going out on a limb in articulating the promises of the Bible in this way. The Bible asks whoever will to gamble with your life in order to see what God will do.

84

Puck, you may have meant this to be disparaging, but I’ll wear it like a bage of honor. :slight_smile:

Seriously, I know that sharing these things is to put myself forward for scrutinty. But I think I’ve given an accurate answer to John H’s question about knowing as it relates to the claims made by the Bible.

85

A bagel of honor, pinned to the lapel, is quite Dada, so I approve.

86

Then you’re not experimenting.

Gambling is a decent metaphor. Experimenting is not.

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87

Yes, I’ve often been impressed by linguistics articles in Wikipedia.

They certainly vary in quality but many of them are also quite well written for the layperson who doesn’t have a lot of background. (A few fail to provide clickable links to the definitions/articles behind terminology—but I wonder if those get improved over time. Considering the volunteer labor, one has to be impressed.)

If you had told me back in the early days of the Internet that there would be such a excellent “encyclopedia of all knowledge” free-of-charge resource in so many languages, I would have asked, “How could any business model support such a tool?” I didn’t anticipate what volunteerism could produce. (And I never anticipated people would flock to Twitter to learn what a fifth-tier celebrity ate for breakfast—and be interrupted on their cell phones throughout the day. When I got my first cell phone in the mid-1980’s, my biggest concern was begin interrupted all the time when I was out of the office.)

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88

Now that you mention it, I’d actually prefer the bagel of honor

89

A beagle of honor could also be quite fun.

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90

Though beagles tend to object when pinned to a lapel.

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91

I’m not saying that you don’t have to be extremely careful.

92

I’ve largely given up on dogs ever since they renamed my Dachshund “Nissan.”

93

I’m not clear what this evidence is, or just what it is you have tasted or seen.

How about what other people’s lives are like? Are you better off in these various vaguely defined ways than, say, I am?

Another question: is it necessary that God really exist in order to provide all these benefits for you? What if it’s all in your head, in other words a useful illusion?

In the future, please don’t.

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94

Yeah, I’m done. It is a waste of time.

95

The boy responds, “I will tell the truth, but you won’t like it. The truth is that from the beginning of time, man was created with a sinful nature.

Untrue.

Though I tried to control my desire for self satisfaction, I am inherently evil and without repentance and a firm commitment to walk in faith according to the word of God, I am incapable of behaving righteously of my own power. I may think I am doing good, but I also have the capacity to deceive myself, so I need guidance to know what is true.”

If one does good for a reward, ie going to heaven, are they really doing good or is it selfish?

When an atheist does good then, is it better than when a Christian does, because they expect no reward in the hereafter?

If a Christian believes for all the wrong reasons, and a non Christian rejects Christianity for all the right reasons, who is doing the right thing?

These are serious questions philosophers like Kiekegaard, and less serious tv series like The Good Place struggle with.

Some of the most selfless, generous people I know are atheists.

This self flagellation by Christians and denial of the possibility of non Christians to do good is one of the biggest turnoffs of Christianity.

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96

The story of the Bible isn’t actually about “doing good to go to heaven”. We’ve misunderstood and misrepresented the text.

If anyone does good, especially in loving and serving others, it’s highly commendable.

If a Christian believes for the wrong reasons and someone not a Christian rejects Christianity for the right reasons, I think the non-Christian is more likely to be justified before God.

97

I appreciate that you are trying, but those experiments you suggest are really nothing more than vague platitudes.

Could you write out something out to the methodology section of a high school science experiment? You know “Do x, y and z. If the Christian god exists you should observe ____.”

You could also suggest what different results would be obtained if the gods of any other religions existed.

Is that unreasonable?

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98

I’m going to take a shot at answering all of this, but it may be tomorrow before I have it posted. And great questions! Whether you guys smell what I’m cooking, or not, it should be a fun exercise (for me at least).

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99

Chad, I’m troubled by the theme of this list. If I look at what I consider to be the essence of Christianity (maybe you disagree):

36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” 37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

I see a bit of the first in your list, but nothing whatsoever that relates to the second. Your list seems to be about self-interest more than anything else. Why is that?

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100

What makes that particular to Christianity?

101

I think this covers it.