I don’t see this. First, your use of “soul” is a common one (even in philosophy and systematic theology) but it’s not a biblical word (i.e., the Hebrew and Greek words that are sometimes translated as “soul” don’t mean what we mean in common parlance). Second, and more to the point, orthodox Christianity does not demand the “soul” must live on forever (assuming this is what you mean by immortal). There is some variety of thought in the history of Christianity, and particularly modern biblical theologians.
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I was not arguing (for or) “against” anything. I was seeking clarification of definitions.
As I said, “consciousness” as it is normally defined, lacks any direct implication of survival beyond death, and of a divine connection.
“Soul”, particularly in a Christian context (and you are after all a Christian), normally has those two implications front and center.
These issues are, I think, relevant to trying to understand your statement that:
Given that I strongly suspect that the existence of consciousness is far less controversial than that of a “soul” as the latter is commonly conceived, I think how closely the two concepts overlap is of some importance to this conversation.
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Yea, and in my conception of the soul it is basically experienced as consciousness and indistinguishable from it. I’m very much inclined also to believe it must be embodied, so humans can’t experience true disembodied consciousness (though the particular bodies required for consciousness might be quite exotic).
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Seeking clarification: am I right in thinking that you are saying that you believe that
a) the soul is experienced as consciousness, which for humans requires embodiment, and
b) the human soul survives mortal death
with the implication that
c) there will be an embodying, or re-embodying, of our souls after we die?
No need to restate my reasons for not sharing such beliefs; at this stage I am only seeking to make sure that I understand them correctly
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1 Timothy 1:19-20
King James Version
19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:
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What really is may be different than our definitions.
our moral choices may be our conscience which may be calculated in our conscience because of personal awareness. I guess people could study that between humans and other species and see if it goes beyond fight and flight. There is likely studies. I think our Soul may be the sum of our being including our standing with others and God our history.. etc.
Our Spirit may be referring to the unction, the portability of a continual existence. And those terms may get mixed up and used improperly. God giving us life and his spirit with our spirit may be that continued action. And without the Body, there is no battery to keep the spirit alive. And so your soul your memories and character would just stop existing. The mind may be the wiring of the computer, the computer box the soul the power supply the life giving spirit of God. etc..
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The question is, is there a perpetuation of the character and person of a person of their soul after the body dies. And can that be contained in a copy like a thumb drive. be alive like a seed that could sit dormant for a million years and then with a bit of water spring to life. The bible tends to suggest such.
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. (speaking about the benefit of his own death and resurrection. )
John 11:24-26
King James Version
24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
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Yes. That’s pretty core Christian teaching, that we will get new bodies, rather than being disembodied, in the after life.
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