You wrote this from the point of view of a Christian, likely forgetting you are an atheist with respect to the numerous non-Christian religions out there. So at this point it is reasonable to ask if you have a severed or distant relationship with Amadioha, my tribe’s God of thunder, considering you are atheistic about him?
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@Audrey Over on Panda’s Thumb they are in the midst of publishing a 7-part series titled Breakthrough for Intelligent Design?. While I’m not sure there is really much “breakthrough”, it is an earnest discussion of science and ID from a Christian perspective. AND, to my delight, it properly acknowledges aspects of scientific hypothesis testing which are usually ignored (or begged) by ID. The first 3 parts and additional comments are already published, start here:
I should add, these are not quick reads, but may offer you insight to how these scientific questions are approached. There is some mention of Young Earth Creationism, which as far as I can tell does not interest you, but is worth noting because ID and Creation Science face essentially the same scientific (and theological) difficulties.
Yes! There is one excellent book I know of that covers most of these topics in a single, accessible volume: Case for a Creator by Lee Strobel. He was an investigative reporter who, as an atheist, decided to turn his investigative skills to Christianity. (There’s a brief video of Strobel telling his story here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbo731FjNfE.)
The book is occasionally “triumphalist,” as if some particular detail is so overwhelmingly obvious that everyone should see it – a little over-enthusiastic at times in that regard. But totally a five star book for content.
A series of short videos give a brief summary of each chapter of that book starting here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYLHxcqJmoM&list=PLC805D4953D9DEC66. These make a great intro to the book, and you get to meet the people he interviewed while researching the book.
I identify with your quest to sort it out! The author of creation might have left fingerprints on it, and you want to know more. I find it to be a joyful quest. Seeing the brilliance of what he has done adds a whole new dimension to worship.
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How so? It’s working pretty damned well.
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@Dan_Eastwood I went there expecting something different, given the context of this forum. That’s a very academic discussion, unlikely (IMO) what @Audrey is looking for. Secondly, sending someone to Panda’s Thumb is like sending someone to Evolutionnews.org - they are only going to get one side of the issue.
In addition, ID is a very polarized issue, like politics in the US. I find many of the criticisms shockingly petty and ad hominem. I would recommend to @Audrey to watch videos explaining basic Intelligent Design concepts (as in the book I recommended), and watch the criticisms. Dismiss out of hand claims that either side are scoundrels.
I think Audrey is capable of deciding for herself, and when it comes to science academic discussions are very normal.
Secondly, sending someone to Panda’s Thumb is like sending someone to [Evolutionnews.org] - they are only going to get one side of the issue.
Note that these article were not written FOR Panda’s Thumb, but are being republished (after translation) BY Panda’s thumb with the cooperation of the original authors. Here Ola Hössjer is representing “both a creationist and an ID perspective”.
In addition, ID is a very polarized issue, like politics in the US. I find many of the criticisms shockingly petty and ad hominem.
Now this is the part I really like: Hössjer is a professor of mathematical statistics and he gets the scientific methodology right. Unlike a lot of arguments about ID, there is no argument over methodology because Hössjer is using well accepted methods. There is some disagreement over assumption, as might be expected, but there is no trace of ad hominem, no politics, and no scoundrel-izing. It’s a great scientific discussion.
I would recommend to @Audrey to watch videos explaining basic Intelligent Design concepts (as in the book I recommended), and watch the criticisms.
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Different strokes I guess. Personally I find many videos a total waste of time because I can read the same content many times faster than some talking head on a video can pronounce the same text. Occasionally we see a video where useful visual information is presented in addition to the text (but for ID mostly not). Additionally, it’s good to have both sides of the discussion represented on the same page.
I suggest you go back and have a more careful read of the discussion between Hössjer and Erkell. It’s really quite good.
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I can summarize the book for you: kalam cosmological argument, fine tuning argument, evolution bad, irreducible complexity, “new information” can’t arise naturally. It’s a hodgepodge of standard ID arguments, and is nothing new or special, unfortunately.
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That is somewhat misleading. The fact is that - as the titles suggest - Strobel’s books are written to promote a particular view and are certainly not investigative journalism.
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@Michael_Okoko My religious views are more inclusive than what you are suggesting. I am not an atheist with respect to the numerous non-Christian religions out there. Although as a Christian I believe that God is a Trinity: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, with the Son being Jesus Christ who incarnated on earth, I believe that all people who are seeking the divine God of the universe have a relationship with that God, although various religions will have different beliefs about that God.
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@Marty Thank you so much again for taking the time to write and for this suggestion! I am going to save these YouTube links and watch them! :-))
Short summary: professional Christian Apologist interviews a bunch of Apologists associated with the Discovery Institute, most of whom are philosophers rather than scientists (I counted only one biochemist, one astronomer and a Moonie Theologian who only got a PhD in Biology explicitly in order to help “destroying Darwinism” among the eight ‘experts’), who told him sciencey-sounding ID-Creationist arguments. Any connection to Strobel’s purported past as “an atheist [who] decided to turn his investigative skills to Christianity” would be entirely coincidental.
Before wasting her time and money on the book, @Audrey may wish to read one of the many far shorter critiques enumerating this books many flaws, e.g.:
If she really wants this dreck, she could save her money by going directly to the source and read similar material on the DI’s website.
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Ah, a very handy principle, if your people are scoundrels. Otherwise unnecessary.
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Just a heads-up that comments veering into argument about various beliefs may be shuffled off to a different thread.
/fnord
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You did not answer my question. Do you have a distant or severed relationship with Amadioha, the Igbo God of thunder since you don’t believe in him?
By atheism, I meant lack of belief. Surely, as Christian you don’t believe the Igbo Almighty God, Chukwu, is really almighty? Chukwu is worshipped through smaller gods such as Amadioha.
And all of these different religions cannot all have the right view of God if that supreme God did actually exist, true?
So after one does all the things you recommend, then what happens?
Yes. Do you think we could be having this conversation right now, instantaneously and from distant areas of the planet, thru just using our “heart”? As only one example.
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