You’re the one who is asking us the question, so that’s not a good analogy. You didn’t ask us if we believed in unicorns. You ask us how we know we have a personal relationship with a person who cannot stand in front of you - we believe it is true he is a man and is God and you can examine the evidence of the claim - he existed in early A.D. and he rose from the dead.
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Well, it’s an interpretation. Hi, David.
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Exactly! So why this vale of tears. Why not boom, straight to heaven before we fall?
You do realize you are quote-mining me, perhaps with humorous intent. I said (in context) that that it (IMO) is not God’s intent to save everyone.
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owns up
I do.
I have. There is no good reason to believe he rose from the dead. Like some of your fellow believers are saying here, it is just a matter of faith. That seems a very flimsy basis for something of such monumental significance (if it was true.)
But, sure, if he’s God he can do what he want. He doesn’t have to be rational or fair. Remember Mr. Snuffleupagus, from Sesame Street? Your god seems a bit like him. He exists, but somehow always manages to disappear just when anyone other than Big Bird is about to see him. The people who thought he was just Big Bird’s imaginary friend were making the correct conclusion based on the evidence available to them.
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Just an observation. I think you are wrong about having to make choices. Most of us absorb the culture we are raised in. We don’t have to make choices. Further, Changing one’s view on religious belief must be life-changing. I can’t imagine anyone undertaking such a step lightly. If you remain within your community, your culture, you have no reason to make a choice.
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Throwing out the question to anyone reading?
Have you ever seriously considered making a choice about your personal belief? Have you ever modified your beliefs to accommodate new facts or experience?
I think this expresses the conflict very well, you have all the facts that we can give you, you just choose not to have faith in the information offered, which is completely your choice. That seems to me to be the whole point.
Faith is a choice, atheism is a choice, not making a choice is a choice…we will all eventually have to account for that choice, I am confident in mine. @Faizal_Ali is also confident. I would not say which is better, but I know which is better for me. I was raised agnostic, lived atheist and studied philosophy most of my life …my upbringing had zero to do with my choice.
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He is arguably the first, but we can agree he is not the second. He may appear irrational because we do not know what is his plan. That’s true for humans, too. An activity might appear supremely irrational if we are making incorrect assumptions about what the person is trying to accomplish.
As for fair, if that means he treats everyone the same same way, then he is definitely not fair. He treated the Jews very differently than the “ites” who were in their way in Joshua’s conquest of Palestine, just to give the most obvious example.
But even as God is unfair, it is in the positive direction (mercy for some) not the negative direction (injustice for some). Nobody gets punishment they do not deserve, but some are spared from the punishment they do deserve.
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I disagree. Especially about your culture not having anything to do with your philosophical outlook. Why aren’t you a Buddhist? What does “living atheist” mean?
I guess, to the extent that it is a choice not to believe something on “faith” when facts are lacking. I am consistent in that. I also don’t have “faith” that Bigfoot exists or that people have been abducted by aliens because the facts that would be required to support these claims are also lacking. However, if you do not believe these things, then I am curious to hear why you don’t. How do you decide when to rely on “faith” and when not? It seems random to me.
If we treat the OT as historically accurate (which we shouldn’t) that is at best highly dubious.
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Thought experiment: If Jesus did exist, you’re certain that if you stood before him in judgment that he’d agree with you that you’ve done a worthy examination, or would you agree with him that you weren’t really interested in knowing him as the Bible teaches Christians will happen?
You seem mad at him. You also seem mad at him he’s not making himself available to you exactly as you’d like him to, and again, want a God you can tell what to do.
Yes.
Wrong. I also wasn’t mad at Mr. Snuffleupagus for disappearing at the most inopportune moments. But it would have made no sense if the adult characters believed in his existence just because Big Bird believed in him. That’s why the gag worked.
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did you watch the video I linked you of David Wood’s conversion as a sociopath/psychopath? I’m curious what you thought of each of his arguments, if you’ve thought of the same ones.
I shake my head at the “you hate God” approach.
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Merely my impression of this statement.
I said “seem” - it’s my opinion of how that came across. I cannot speak for him obviously.
I’ve had the remark made to me and seen it repeated on internet discussion forrums many times. I just can’t make sense of it. It’s like the plot from “Neverending Story”. Just because Faizal and I aren’t persuaded by religious concepts is no need to worry they’ll disappear. Your belief is unaffected.
No, where did you post it?
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The problem with this approach is that it can be used for every single religion. If Mohammed really was Allah’s prophet could you explain to Allah why you refused to believe his prophet and adhere to the Koran?
My advice to Christians presenting arguments to us atheists is to ask yourself if that same argument would convince you to convert to a different religion.
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