What about the ATP?

[pawas]

@Rumraket

The function performed by the V-ATPase structure (ATP hydrolysis driving vacuolar acidification) was already there, but the way in which it is performed by parts of the structure (the hexameric membrane channel ring), and the degree of it’s compositional complexity, was not.

No new complex functionality. Just the old functionality with some replaced components.

Darwinism’s most audacious and only important claim is that it can build complex functional systems such as the eye. Work such as that from the Thornton group on V-ATPase is fine in itself but doesn’t say anything about that audacious and important claim.

[pawas]

@Rumraket

And it’s functional. It retained it’s overall function while growing more complex in it’s number of different required components.

No new complex functionality. Just the old functionality with some replaced components.

[pawas]

@Rumraket

It has that distinct smell of a desperate need to declare and assert that “OMG NOTHING HAS BEEN PROVEN YOUR BACTERIA DIDN’T TURN INTO A GIRAFFE”.

Giraffe?

You can’t show even how to build bacteria from scratch, even if you had all the required components in a lab. But you can’t show how to make all the required components either. And every new discovery makes those tasks even harder. Pathetically desperate situation.

However, if you ever figure out how to create all that in your lab, beware of those annoying folks who could claim you just designed it.

Have a good day!

[Rumraket (Mikkel R.)]

Thanks, you too buddy.

[pawas]

Molecular architecture of the N‐type ATPase rotor ring from Burkholderia pseudomallei

Sarah Schulz, Martin Wilkes, Deryck J Mills, Werner Kühlbrandt, Thomas Meier

DOI 10.15252/embr.201643374| Published online 10.03.2017

EMBO reports (2017) 18, 526-535

the ATPase is proton‐coupled. The c17 ring stoichiometry results in a very high ion‐to‐ATP ratio of 5.7.

this N‐ATPase is a highly efficient proton pump that helps these melioidosis‐causing bacteria to survive in the hostile, acidic environment of phagosomes.

[pawas]

Reversible optical control of F1Fo‐ATP synthase using photoswitchable inhibitors

Bianca Eisel, Felix W.W. Hartrampf, […], and Dirk Trauner
FEBS Lett. 2018 Feb; 592(3): 343–355.
doi: 10.1002/1873-3468.12958
PMCID: PMC6175411
PMID: 29292505

[pawas]

@Rumraket

I’ll take that as commentary. I don’t even see it’s relevance. Nothing about evolution below or above the species level has been mentioned in this thread so why you feel the need to start talking about that is really very odd indeed.

Who brought up the “evolution” issue first in this topic?

As I’ve said before, I prefer to avoid that kind of senseless discussion, which leads nowhere because we all talk past each other.

If the topic is “evolution” then feel free to bring it up in any shape and form to be dissected.

But if somebody raises the issue in an unrelated topic, my reaction is clear now. I’ll treat it from a systems engineering perspective, i.e. extensive inquiring about every important detail. Precise explanations must be given. Digging deep. All details must be explained. No exceptions.

Don’t like it? Then don’t provoke it. Very simple.
This applies to all science-related topics I initiate.
Stick to scientific analysis of the observed objects and processes. Enjoy it. But don’t risk having to use the word “speculation” in any form when answering questions, as you did more than once in this conversation.
In serious engineering, talking “speculation” doesn’t sound well at best.
I look at science from the systems engineering perspective. Don’t like it? Too bad. Sorry.

[Rumraket (Mikkel R.)]

@pawas

Who brought up the “evolution” issue first in this topic?

You. The very 1st paper you quote from is about the “Evolution of the F0F1 ATP Synthase Complex in Light of the Patchy Distribution of Different Bioenergetic Pathways across Prokaryotes”